Question for Jehovahs Witnesses . . ..?

Question

What do you think about Hebrews 1:5 and Philippians 2:5-11. Can you read them and tell me how you percieve them? To me they seems obvious that Jesus is God! Thanks! God Bless you!!

whoops! I forgot. Where in the Bible does it say about the 144,000 or whatever the number is??

Thanks snagelfritz.. I knew I remembered it from somewhere. . but I really don't think that means the 144,000 are all thats going to Heaven. .

globalizer, did you read the whole thing??? Or maybe your Bible is just totally diff. than mine.

and also, don't tell me too "do more research"!! I read the Bible, and asked you a question about it!!! I didn't say you were an embicile and wrong, I just asked your opinion and stated mine. And what about Colossians 1:15-Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He exsisted before anything was created. . .for through him God created everything!! I don't know. . but it sure seems to me like ohh, nevermind . .

Answer 1

The Scripture in Phillipians quite explicitly refutes the idea that Jesus the Son and Jehovah the Father are the same person.
(Philippians 2:6) [Jesus] gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God

Similarly, pretending that Hebrews 1:5 supports trinitarianism requires that one purposely ignore the obvious answers to the obvious rhetorical questions posed there. In fact, Hebrews 1:5 actually contains strong proof that Jesus *IS* (and was) an angel. That verse asks two questions to which any bible student then and now knows the answers. Here is every word of that verse at Hebrews 1:5:

(Hebrews 1:5) For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father"? And again: "I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son"?

THE CLEAR ANSWER TO BOTH QUESTIONS ('Which angel?') IS THAT THE ANGEL IS JESUS!

This scripture is a strong argument to PROVE that Jesus *IS* an angel, albeit the Archangel. Sincere bible students are interested in the verses which answer the straightforward questions of Hebrews 1:5:

Q: To which one of the angels did God ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father"?
A: To the angel Jesus, the Christ!
(Psalm 2:2-12) High officials themselves have massed together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one [footnote; "Christ"]... Let me refer to the decree of Jehovah; He has said to me: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father..." And now, O kings, ...Kiss the son

Q: To which of one of the angels did God ever say: "I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son"?
A: To the angel Jesus, God's chosen King!
(2 Samuel 7:11-14) Jehovah has told you ...I shall certainly raise up your seed after you ...and I shall indeed firmly establish his kingdom. ...I shall certainly establish the throne of his kingdom firmly to time indefinite. I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son


Here are three connections (in addition to Hebrews 1:5) showing that Jesus Christ is the same person as the archangel Michael:

1. Note that Jesus the Lord calls with an archangel's voice:
(1 Thessalonians 4:14-16) Jesus died and rose again, so, too... the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice


2. Note that BOTH Jesus ("The Word") and Michael are spoken of as leading the angelic armies; can there be two such leaders who do not even mention one another?

(Revelation 19:13-14) the name he is called is The Word of God. Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him

(Revelation 12:7) And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled


3. Note that BOTH Jesus and Michael return and stand up at the same time; this is during a time of distress (or tribulation) "such as has never happened before" which seems quite clearly to be a one-time event.

(Daniel 12:1) And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book.

(Matthew 24:3-21) the disciples approached him [Jesus] privately, saying: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?" And in answer Jesus said to them: "...All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. ...But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. ...for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/

Answer 2

you must be reading something into that isnt there because in Philipians it says that he did not consider himself equal toGod and in hebrews the question asked is to which one of the angels did God say you are my son and I have become your Father so your point is not made and Jesus never said he was god but always said he was the Son of God and the father jehovah and the Son have 2 different names and Col 1:15 and others state that Jesus was the first born of all creation he was Jehovahs first born Son and the other question is in Rev ch 7 and Ch 14 you should do better research Gorbalizer

Answer 3

I just here as an observer. But, the 144,000 is in Revelation Chapter 7 & 14.

Answer 4

Captials per NASB. (Not mine)

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,
"YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"?
And again,
"I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?

Angel means messenger, Jesus is not just an angel, He is begotten by Jehovah.

Begotten means "brought to life", "created"

It is in harmony with

Hebrews 1:9"YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."

What companions does Jesus have? It's not God, because it was his God that anointed him.

Philippians 2 (New American Standard Bible)

Has the subheading:

"Be Like Christ"

So in imitation of Christ we as Christians should veiw equallity with God as something to be grasped?


Phil 2:5-11

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

---------------
Do you know that the greek word here translated as grasped, literally means:

Robbery, Rape, or Plunder ?

Jesus did not view equallity with God as something to rob, rape or plunder.

In your words, it is obvious that Jesus is God's Son, and not God. (Lord means 'master' not god)

11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Matt 3: 17and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

Answer 5

i'm not a JW, but they have their own bible. it is less than half the size of a normal Bible. do you know why? its because they have taken everything concerning jesus and the prophecies about him, out of it. every time i ask my roomate (JW) to read it in the Bible or show me, he wont do it.

Answer 6

Abi - 1
JW - 0

actually, the weirdest thing... i heard they have their own book, kinda like mormons have their book of mormon. in that book, they wrote how many people get into heaven. someone else might need to verify that for me, I can't find any information on it right now.