For Protestants (aka non-Catholics)?

Question

Protestants generally fall into two categories: Calvinism and Arminianism.

Which camp do you fall into?

If you fall partially in both camps, please list the tenets you believe in.

If you feel you fall into neither, please list the tenets of both categories that you disbelieve.



(Calvinism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinist#The_five_points_of_Calvinism)

(Arminianism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism)

The five points of Calvinism, which can be remembered by the English acronym TULIP are:

* Total depravity (or total inability): As a consequence of the Fall of man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin. According to the view, people are not by nature inclined to love God with their whole heart, mind, or strength, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God. Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.
* Unconditional election: God's choice from eternity of those whom he will bring to himself is not based on foreseen virtue, merit, or faith in those people. Rather, it is unconditionally grounded in God's mercy.

# Limited atonement (or particular redemption or definite atonement): The death of Christ actually takes away the penalty of sins of those on whom God has chosen to have mercy. It is "limited" to taking away the sins of the elect, not of all humanity, and it is "definite" and "particular" because atonement is certain for those particular persons.
# Irresistible grace (or efficacious grace): The saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to a saving faith in Christ.
# Perseverance of the saints (or preservation of the saints): Any person who has once been truly saved from damnation must necessarily persevere and cannot later be condemned. The word saints is used in the sense in which it is used in the Bible to refer to all who are set apart by God, not in the technical sense of one who is exceptionally holy, canonized, or in heaven

Arminianism holds to the following tenets:

* Humans are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation
* Salvation is possible by grace alone
* Works of human effort are not cause or contribution to salvation
* God's election is conditional on faith in Jesus
* Jesus' atonement was potentially for all people
* God allows his grace to be resisted by those unwilling to believe
* Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional upon continued faith

THESE ARN'T DENOMINATIONS! These are the two main categories of Protestant belief systems.

Answer 1

I tend to be a TULIP even though I think too many people waist too much time on this subject. So I won't waist much of yours by answering. God knows all, from beginning to end and because of this He knows all who will trust in Jesus. I do believe I cannot resist Him, I remember well the day I got saved, it was out of my control, yet it seemed like I made the decision. I know it was God who drew me to Him and I am thankful.

What good does this arguement do for anyone? Many good people get into heavy debates over this subject. I had one couple leave our small group over it.

Answer 2

vashsunglasses,
I think that you'll especially by the answers that you've already gotten, that there is not too much valiue that many Protestents place on either Calvin or Jacobus Arminius. Rather, they have been so far removed by them, as they are Martin Luther, for the sake of learning the basics from their pastors of today, and by the understanding within the Bible itself.

I firmly believe this. For I have only been read small snippets of Calvin, wnogh to know that I think he's wrong about a few things, and Ariminius not at all. Now this does not mean that they did not do anything that might have drifted into the curreny Protestant Church, but that effect is actually little.

I think that one reason why that is, is because there are a lot more learned men that are readily available to preach the word of God than there ever were before.

So the attempt to place Protestants into either one of those camps by default, would be an erroreous approach.

That is my opinion on this.

"Which camp do you fall into?"
I wuld have to study them more to make sure that I was in either one. (This is sounding like what Paul addressed with the Corinthian church who were dividing and saying, "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, . . . )

"If you fall partially in both camps, please list the tenets you believe in."
All of the tenets have a seed of truth to them. Beyond what they are saying, that would become the debate, in my opinion.

Answer 3

I guess if I had to go according to the definitions that have been put up, I would be in the Calvinism category. Because we can't earn salvation; it is something we didn't ask for, it is a gift. But I do know that the God that I serve says nothing about denomination in His word it is about being a follower of Christ--a Christian. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Thank the Lord for loving you enough to die for you before you even knew what sin was. What a good Father!!

Answer 4

I've heard of calvinism, and knew my faith had nothing in common with that, cause of predestination, once saved always saved, and so forth. I had never researched armininanism( wow, what a mouthful) I do beleive in all it's tenets , although we believe that good works follow the faith, even though they don't earn u salvation. Some denominations that fall in this category have some of the same beleifs as mine, such as Christ's millenial reign, there's no free ticket to heaven, copying of the 1st century christians and so forth. I'm a Jehovah's Witness.

Answer 5

If you consider Calvinism and Arminianism to be opposite poles, then I fall on a continuum somewhere closer to Calvinism.

To clarify that, pure Calvinism, if taken to its logical extreme, seems to negate the need for human responsibility and tends to make people spiritually lazy and somewhat lax about dealing with their own sin ("The Five Points of Calvinism: Weighed and Found Wanting" by George L. Bryson). Either that, or Calvinists run to the opposite extreme and become hopelessly rigid and "legalistic" in order to prove to themselves that they are one of the elect. Legalism (being overly strict for its own sake) seems to be condemned by the apostle Paul, and I noticed from my own experience that it makes some very unhappy, unloving people.

Pure Arminianism seems to make God seem impotent and uninvolved. It also stresses people out, since they believe that the weight of the world lies on their shoulders.

I also noticed that you can pull out Bible verses to support either position.

I am somewhat of a fatalist, but I also assume that I help to bring about my own fate. I know that this sounds vague, but I am still working it out. I think that the interaction & tension between God's sovereignty and human free will is a mystery like the trinity -- we can never fully understand it.

Answer 6

I fall squarely in the Calvinism camp, since it gives the glory completely to God concerning salvation. I look at Arminianism as a humanist, arrogant theology that takes God's prerogative for itself. To believe that Man has the capability, despite his tainted, sinful nature, to be able to choose God, is laughable. It makes the decision for God as if He cannot act on His own, in His own sovereignty. Balderdash! My God is all-powerful, all-knowing, omniscient, and fully capable of choosing His own from before the beginning of time. Our part is to respond to His grace when the Holy Spirit beckons us with an irresistable love that convicts us and holds us to Him.

Answer 7

I'm a Christian...I do not fall in any of your categories. I don't go to church as I believe they are all or mostly all corrupt. The corruption from the "traditions of men." The true church is the true believers in Jesus Christ around the world, it's the people and not a denomination or building.

Catholic, Protestant...I don't care! I belong to neither. I am Christian and God knows my heart.

Answer 8

Excellent question. I hadn't considered this stuff since I left seminary and became a Buddhist atheist. You may have left out much Evangelical theology which has a difficult time with predestination.

My experience with Christians is that they have not put the first thought into their deep theological roots. They can only share the limited information garnered in Sunday school and pastors' sermons. Most will bellow, "Bible! Bible!" without knowing that the source of both of your example theologies are found in the scriptures.

Answer 9

I'm a subscriber to "mere Christianity," a term originally coined by CS Lewis. It means that I don't bother with meaningless "denominations" or "sects," but rather, I just read the Word of God and try to follow it to the best of my abilities. Denominations in Christianity only create division in Christianity.

Answer 10

Well I don't believe in some of calvinism stuff, so I guess it would be the other one, although I've never heard of it.