Is religion essential to ethics, or do they require only intelligence?

Question

As an atheist, from generations of atheist philosophers, I think ethics (and much of what many call morals) are self-evident and ultimately universally self-enforcing when one thinks about it. From family to species and Earth and its systems, we are interdependant. Does religious doctrine convince us, really - or by allowing us to avoid thinking, and convincing ourselves, merely restrict our insight, act on scripts (often misunderstood) as we find convenient, and look always for external direction, making us potential puppets?

Answer 1

Ethics come from the intelligence to know what you do to others can be done to you. Thus unless you're anti social or in some way twisted you'll have a moral and ethical code.

Answer 2

Philosophy, especially ethics, is largely based on beliefs and opinions. There is little or nothing of ethics which can be based on pure reason or logic. From generations of atheist philosophers you can easily see how fads come and go as to what different people think is right, or ethical, and have vastly different methods for determing right or ethical.

It is the Christian position that much of what you believe to be self-evident, is actually revealed to us by a Higher Intelligence that also created everything. If we stoop to individual morality, then we can't say anyone is wrong and you have anarchy. If we stoop to state morality, then we have Nazi's, ruthless dictators, etc. to deal with. If we rely on the survival of the fittest, then how did altruism, self-denial, or sacrifice, ever develop? Or is it being bred out of us slowly?

You will need to explain how intelligence leads to ethics in a naturalist world-view. This I do not perceive.

Interesting question. Thanks. I'll ignore the part about insight and scripts at present, except to note that the atheist philosophers script keeps changing and don't give me started on situational ethics, or individual truth. d:c) Sorry. It was stimulating.

Answer 3

Yes and no. Let me explain.

Intelligence is not necessarily equivalent to ethical behavior. I'm sure the CEOs of Enron and similar companies were fairly apt individuals, yet they saw no problem in raping the pensions of others.

Likewise, while religion can allow a person to avoid thinking, so can a lot of things. A strict commitment to rationality will lead someone to atheism, but a strict commitment to atheism will not necessarily lead to rationality. Atheism, like any idea, can become a "faith" if it is believed for irrational reasons. I think all beliefs based on irrationality are damaging, even if you happen to be lucky enough to be correct.

Some ethics are self-evident. Others less so. I think the study of ethics in a scientific sense is really just beginning. Ethics should be studied like medicine. In the latter, the facts of biology are applied to the goal of human health. In the former, the facts of psychology should be applied to the goal of human happiness.

Did I even answer the question, or did I just ramble? :-p

Answer 4

For the moment at least, it seems that most people need the guidance of religious institutions

Yes it can lead to conflict and maybe mass destruction

It is useful to try and see the big pictuire when looking for answers to philosophical and religious questions

The way that I understand religion is that most people need guidance in spiritual matters and that religious institutions become corrupt over time and loose the plot resulting in splinter groups and conflict.

Every new religion builds new institutions that help to reunite the splinters of all previous religions and introduces the next installment of Gods plan (the universe unfolding....) which usually means a change in the social laws to fit the age - such as equal status for men and women - one world government (unity in diversity) and so on.

If u are interested in investigating the latest world religion check out www.bahai.org

Answer 5

Have you ever known or known of a person with very high intelligence who had such poor ethics, so much so that they very well may have had no conscience?

Intelligence does not equal ethical behavior in all circumstances, so the answer to your first question is, no, ethics do not require only intelligence.

Is religion essential to ethics? Which religion? Satanism, for example, isn't essential to ethics, as it is unethical. And, indeed, it is a religion.

Religious doctrine does not in and of itself allow us to avoid thinking. Challenging, difficult, and sublime Christian theology actually encourages thinking. To understand this, however, you would have to understand a bit about the theology. It has "gotten in the water" that Christianity is simplistic, when actually it is the most complex thing I have come across in all my time on earth. And I have come across numerous complex things.

If you believe that there is nothing external to direct us, then indeed it would follow that you would believe external direction would make us...something. Not puppets, for in order that we be puppets, there must be a puppeteer. It would make us deluded or something if we sought external direction when there was no external director.

And yet if you know God, and you know his demands as well as his gifts, then you have an understanding of how, exactly, his direction works. And his direction, if you submit to it, requires rigor, insight, sensitivity, discernment, knowledge, integrity, hope, courage, and a host of other traits and qualities not so easily come by in this world.

Answer 6

Faith is how you treat "god".
Morality is how you treat people.
The two are unrelated.

I've said that many times before, and the godbots *always* give it a "thumbs down". They apparently don't like the truth.

If religion did equate to morality, then somebody will have to explain the KKK, pedophile priests, the Nazis, Dennis Rader (the BTK serial killer), the crusades, islamic terrorism and every other example of crimes committed by strongly religious people.

The only response they give is, "That person is not a true christian/whatever!" Oh really? Then does that mean Joe Stalin wasn't a true atheist?

It doesn't. It means most of the religious are too dishonest to admit their people are no more ethical than atheists or anybody else.


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Answer 7

I always find the idea about ethics just being a matter of 'common sense' amazing. It's always put forth by intelligent people, but it certainly seems an idea based as much on faith as any religious idea I've heard.

I mean, I've heard some pretty racist, bigoted ideas expressed by people calling it 'common sense'.

Don't you think there should be some way of *testing* this 'common sense'? That's what most religions try to do. Not to in any way promote Buddhism, but the whole idea behind it is to train the mind to act ethically and to understand the true nature of the world. There are 100's of mind trainings and meditations just for this purpose.

What is comparable in 'atheism'?

Common sense?

Sorry, but there is no comparison.

Answer 8

My dear friend you are quite correct in assessing religion and morality. But you should not forget that like you not everybody is blessed with the knowledge of understanding moral values. People with less aptitude do required certain guidance, may that be in the form of a flock run by a Shepherd.

Answer 9

everyone is seeking normativity. as a catholic i don't think its possible without metaphysics. one can talk about kantian duty, but even kant was a christian. one can spend a lifetime searching for the source of normative human ethics - generations of atheist philosophers have tried and got no closer to it then the first generation. faith explains the unexplainable.

edit.

so, um, nazis weren't professed Christians. 6 million roman catholics died in death camps. the reason the kkk are not good Christians is because they profess hate, injustice, and the degredation of their fellow human beings.

the reason 'joe' stalin (ill just call him good ol' joe) was actually a true-to-form Atheist, is because he was a nihilist - he believed in nothing. no sacredness of human life, no fundamental right of expression, no normative ethics. nada.

not to say all atheists are going around slaughtering 70million people and silencing a whole nation - but my point, along with my orginal point, is this: atheism is nihilism. when you believe in nothing, then search for ethics (ie the source of your own conscience) you reach an ethical system that amounts to nothing.

ethics doesnt requrie intelligence (which is good news for a few people on this posting) but it does require recognition of your conscious soul.

Answer 10

You asked the questiion,...........obviously, you're seeking answers. *MY* question is, *who* wants to know? The parasite inside you, or your soul?????

I too believe in the big bang theory,.......God spoke, and Bang it is!!!

Potential puppets,............ah,......a good one!! That's what happens when folks don't follow the rules of their country. Believe it or not, *most* of the planets' rules are based on The Ten Commandments.

By all means, go right ahead and avoid thinking.!! You're doing a fine job so far! Can you say the word Moral????? Aw come on, just *one* time?----Say it instead of ethics?????

Prove me wrong, say it, and mean it.