Flaw with the "watch and watchmaker" argument?

Question

Christians like to use the cliche argument that there had to be a creator because if there is a watch, then there had to be a watchmaker. Things can't just come about and form on their own. They say the universe had to have a creator for this reason. The also say that the creator always was and had no beginning. Why didn't God have to have a God maker if everything has to have something that made it? The logic of this argument is ridiculous.

Making up a cause for the universe does not solve the problem. If you use the watch argument, you then have to have a cause for the cause. I'm simply saying that this argument should not be used if you think that God always was and always will be.

Answer 1

It is a fair point that if you believe in the watch/watchmaker argument then God must have a creator as well. It think it boils down to the chicken in the egg argument. You'll just go around in circles forever.

Answer 2

The best answer I have heard from a Christian involved a long argument that resulted in "There must be an uncaused causation". Or, in other words, there must be something that exists that was not created.

However, the argument outlined no reason to believe it was an intelligent being, nor to believe that it was the Christian view of God, even if the "Uncaused Causer" was intelligent.

Anyway, I think that a complex thing can come from simpler components without a predesign. I don't think that the watch components in a bag is the right analogy for our universe.

By the way, the argument didn't convince me that there must be an uncaused causer.

Answer 3

The argument does not follow that there has to be a first cause, but we are in a situation where there evidently has been an effect. All effects must have causes and so it goes all the way back until, well, we don't know. Some believe that there was a first cause and others do not and the majority, like me, admit that they have no clue. That theism demands a belief in a deity or deities requires belief that G-d had something to do with it all but what part She/He plays we cannot know and so we go on believing regardless.

Answer 4

you placed super save by ability of the concept that "area", no count if "outer" or that "between atoms" has "consistently been", for this reason does no longer have a beginning up. the way I are conscious of it, the two suggestions "time" and "area" the two got here into being with the start of the Universe. in any different case, how could the questions be replied 'Does the Universe have a boundary? If it does, what's on the different facet?' the respond is that the Universe creates area because it expands. that is increasing into entire "nothingness" - a theory that's impossible for us to understand, being inhabitants of that Universe-created area. "area" become created, purely as mass become. the only distinction is, area remains being created, with the aid of fact the Universe expands. As for the "God" bit, there are fairly an outstanding decision cosmological theories floating around to describe the place the undertaking interior the "vast Band" got here from that don't place self assurance in the life of a "God" determine.

Answer 5

This argument is basically a process of elimination: three possible explanations are offered. When the first two (random chance, natural causes) are ruled out, intelligent design is left standing as the only plausible explanation.

The Achilles heel of the argument is that it fails if there exists a plausible explanation of phenomenon X in terms of natural processes. And this makes it vulnerable to advances in science, which has progressively found more and more naturalistic explanations for natural phenomena, and progressively abandoned explanations in terms of teleology. The location of mountains, for instance, is now explained in terms of plate tectonics. The structure of biological organisms is explained in terms of natural selection. The structure of the solar system is explained in terms of the nebular hypothesis and its refinements. And so on.

There is a great book called "the Blind Wachmaker" which sciencfically debukes the anolgy (I read it in an upper level Bio Class in Collge)

Answer 6

I Am I Am: Always was,always is, and always will be

It's hard, almost impossible for the limited mind (us) to understand and comprhend the limitless mind (God-Jesus Christ)

Question/s for you

Does it make sense that a table put it's self together?
Or that a chair put it's self together ?
Does it makes sense that body parts (arms,legs,head ect.) got up and formed a body by themselves?
Does it make sense to you that there's an explosion without an ignition?

Again, I can see how someone arrives at your conclusion based on the rule that everything has a creator that made it. But God does not apply to this rule

When Moses saw the burning bush and went up to it, he asked who art thou or whow are you?And Gods answer was I Am that I Am; or I Am I Am meaning He always was, always is, and always will be. He has no beggining and he has no end.

In case you dont know: God values the child-like faith; the mind that not over speculative or over pesimistic and stuff like that.He want you to ask quetions, becuase He wants to give the answer;but He values the optimistic child-like faith more than the pesimistic negative refuse to believe anything person.

Luke 11:9-And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.


eagleswing.org

Answer 7

I thought the watchmaker argument had to do with intelligent design, the idea that everything is too perfect to be created by randomness...

Answer 8

There has to be a first cause. Nature is that cause.


There is nothing wrong with that argument. I recommend that people read the "Blind Watchmaker."

Answer 9

I don't intend to disrespect you, but...If you expect an answer for EVERYTHING to meet YOUR EVERY expectation.........you have to be YOUR OWN god.

To the christian, the universe didn't 'have a creator for THIS reason'.

To the christian, the universe has a creator because Genesis 1 says, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

To the christian, the universe has a creator because in Psalms 19:1-2 it is recorded, "To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal? Says the Holy One. Lift your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one, and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."

To the christian, the universe has a creator because Paul said to the church located at Colossi in his letter to to them, expressing Christ as having been one with God in the beginning, in Colossians 1:15-16 he says, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him."

You don't have to believe it. Why try to convince others not to believe it? If you feel it's rediculous; let that work for YOU.

"....................as for me and MY house, we will worship the Lord." Joshua 24:15.

Peace brother

Answer 10

The logic of your argument is ridiculous and shows complete ignorance to the many different Christian faiths. It is kind of like you trying to prove the non-existence of ants and looking for them at the bottom of the ocean. Perhaps if you did some research, you would find that religious people aren't that stupid and have very good answers to your ramblings.