Is it right for club Judo players to compete with competition players of the sport?

Question

Especialy at junior level, there is a vast difference in skill between competition level and club level and I can't tell you how sorry for the kids who go off with injuries taken as being overmatched by competition players. From my experience some coaches and pearants deliberately keep there wards grades low in order to obtain more trophies and glory, this leads to miss- matches and injury especialy with novices. Step up competition is the answer

Answer 1

Judo Tournaments have weight classes and devissions. An 8 year old yellow belt should not be fighting a 12 year old yellow belt. If the weight doesn't seperate them the belt will. Also there are age limits. Once you are over a certain age 14 when I was competing you could use arm locks and chokes, but you couldn't learn them until you were a certain belt/rank. So if there is a kid who is bigger than yours and older and is using dangerous moves maybe you need to go to the Referees or the organizers and complain. And as far as seperating those with little tournament experience from other who have it. You can't, those kids also train in a dojo and their Senseis typically have them spar with each other to learn how to use what they've learned in a more realistic mannor. There should be novice tournaments that you can bring them too for experience.

Answer 2

i found that there is a big problem with a certain association,, they would put there best into open competitions and make sure they got a bye in the first round so they would end up fighting each other this gives there clubs trophys all the time,, also the weight/size cat.. were so bad my son who was10 at time had to fight a 15 year old blue belt my son was only just a orange belt,, but because of my son weight not his height he was about 6/7 in smaller than the other guy,, this put my son off judo.. its a pitty because he had got to black tags as a primary student...this association put him from a 2 black tagged prim.. to a orange belt,, i thought that this was very down heartening for my son who loved the art before he became a junior grade,, i think they should do a inbetween grade this helps the younger ones get ready for the big boys/girls....
also if the association dont like your sensei because he does not agree with giving grades to other sensei when they have`nt done anything for them.... he was offered on 4 occassions another dan grade he refused them because he believes you should earn your dan grades because of how much you know and and how your perform in the art of judo.... after all,, these people do teach our kids.....our sensei felt so strongly about this that he left the association......

i would like to say what a waste of a brilliant talant....
SENSEI = ANDREW McMAHON

Answer 3

Depends on the club and the other players. Some clubs are very competitive and produce winners. And yes, some folks take lower belts to earn trophies which has to feel somewhat hallow. Of course I trained with a guy that bumped up his weight class cause he didn't want to compete with his fellow club player in the championship. btw, both won their class groups.
Peace.

Answer 4

Child players should be matched based on age and grade, regardless of competition experience. It is wrong to artificially keep players grades low so they do better in competitions. More experienced players should take care of the less experienced ones.

Answer 5

i had a competition when i was 9, i beat the 1st 3 people, the fourth was 13 and twivce my size. another example of ITS NOT FAIR, only got runner up.

Answer 6

Looks like the clue is in the question - you have all the answers already; and I agree with you by the way

Answer 7

Looks like you answered your own question are you just looking for people to agree with you?

Answer 8

Judo is designed for mutal benefit and welfare. My honest opinions, competition players are far safer than club players. I find the guys who get injured in situations are usually when someone with less skill attempts to apply a technique at full speed when they aren't good at it and they end up injuring a better player.

I understand how it may seem to some people, but no club wants to keep it's ranks thinned by injury. In Judo they usually keep ranks low for awhile not for comp purposes, but because there are far fewer belts in Judo and some coaches actually take promotion very seriously. It took me two years to advance from Green to brown.

As a coach I want my better players fighting my weaker players, because that makes my weaker players better. You learn not from wasting someone, but from going against a more skilled opponent. At the same time I want my stronger players playing me, or players stronger then them so that they improve.

Unfortunately this is a thing with Martial Arts in general, you generally improve the most by sparring with people far superior to you.

I completely understand the club player to competition player dynamic, especially at a club that has both. But that is unavoidable, and in the end the people who were merely club players playing competitors end up being that much better of Judo players for going against a more skilled opponent. Judo is about both parties learning and growing.

I know from the outside looking in, or even from a club level player it may seem mean or not right. But as a Coach I can tell you there is no malice/ego boost/ or pride involved, it is simply to have everyone of my students be the best Judo players they can be.

As I said earlier, I have seen far more kids/adults injured from not knowing what they are doing, i.e. lower skill person vs. higher skilled person, but lower skill person is going 100 percent, and injures higher skilled person due to lack of technique and control.

That is not to say your position is not legitimate, there are club level people who randori with a competition level person who is going 100 percent, and that club level person is used to going 50 or 60%, and the comp person gets over zealous and an injury happens. Yes especially at Junior level when kids aren't able to contro their techniques as much, and don't have an idea of the consenquences or understand differences in intensity.

But it is the same thing, if you are just a casual player of basketball, and you play Michael Jordan regularly, sure he is going to house you every time. But lets say you get to the point where he can only score off fade aways, or you can kind of keep up with him, then you go and play your buddy at the park, and completely dominate him. Why? Because you are learning from someone better.

Believe me, I have a club type of Judo place with two Olympians and a ton of national champions, we have both. The advantage is that the club players get a level of experience and understanding of Judo that they wouldn't be able to get if they weren't learning/playing elite level Judoka.

When it comes down to it, who you randori with is usually your own choice, either if you are doing it for enjoyment or sport, playing better people help you understand and grow more. Ultimately if you don't want to go against Joe National Champ, that is a personal choice. That is the great thing about most clubs, they aren't going to force you into be a competition player if you just want to do it for enjoyment. They will let you enjoy it however you wish.

Believe me, I have seen far worst things when there have been people who have had quick promotions handed to them, I would rather hold a guy at green belt until he fully can demonstrate and truly know all the techniques at that level, keep him in novice tournaments, and make sure he utilizes those techniques, then gradually move him to brown belt divisions and see if he is ready for that belt.

But ensuring he has the technique to teach any green belt below him exactly how to do the fundamentals of that technique. Otherwise you are just promoting a guy who isn't truly a brown belt level person. An unfortunate side effect is that a green belt with a year experience is going to be more advanced than someone who just got their green belt, or was given it before he was ready.

That is a club type decision, and there are clubs/dojos that hand out belts just to make people feel good. There is nothing wrong with that, that is just how they operate. It does however water down their skill level at a club, especially when there are black belts who are teaching/helping teach and they are teaching flawed techniques.

I would far better have someone who is a green belt but goes to another club and can beat their brown belts, than a brown belt who goes to another club and gets taken out by white belts. That's not pride or ego, that is just wanting my club's Judo to be the best it can be, and for my students to know that they earned their belt. Whether they are competition players, or doing it for the love of Judo, I want them to be the best they can be.

I hope that somewhat answers your questions, I certainly see the validity of it, and how on one side of it, it may seem unfair. But ultimately it helps the martial art as a whole, and the group as a whole. Though little 3 months into a green belt Billy, gets whooped up on by one and half years into a green belt Jack, it sucks for Billy, and his parents, but overall Billy will become a better green belt, and Jack will eventually move on to the next belt.

I am not saying there aren't those guys who have true brown belt level players that they entire in tournaments as green belts. But yes, it does matter to the overall schools repuation, those sort of people are kept for what they know.

If I see a green belt doing left and right side throws and apply techniques that he shouldn't know yet, I get a little irritated. But if I see a green belt doing green belt techniques, just incredibly profeciently than I realize he was just better and more experienced, and that his club is doing what they need to do to maintain the skill level and rep of their club.

So it is a fine line between cheap, and just wanting to keep a strong club. I think there are far more strong clubs, than cheap ones though. And the majority of the time someone is kept at a lower grade because they haven't demonstrated the profeciency of their currents grade techniques, and maybe even the maturity personally to go to the next level.