why is South Africa such God awful mess now?

Question

And before people start automatically blaming apartheid - folks that ended 12 years ago. Actually, it was pretty much done by the late eighties.
At which point does the present government take responsibility for its actions and realise that the buck stops with them?
But then again, it's always someone else's fault.

It's amusing, but also saddening to read the questions on this forum 'Is it safe to go to Sandton?', or 'Is it safe to take a bus to the airport?' Fifteen years ago that woud never have been an issue - for white and black alike.
Those questions have to be asked, however, because the so-called police force in South Africa is just as corrupt and inept as the present government.

I remember asking naive white people in South Africa many years ago why they thought that South Africa would be different from the rest of Africa when black majority rule came.
They just 'knew' it would be.
I wonder how many of them have been robbed, and how many times.

keoki9 - interesting answer. However, we in America don't owe the rest of the world a damn thing.
I, as a hard - working American taxpayer, am sick and tired of being expected to bail the rest of the world out when they f**k up their own countries.
They - the third world - are not children. They are adults in control of their own facuties who need to stop expecting America to look after them.
South Africa got itself into this hole, now it needs to dig its way out.
And don't expect America to supply the spades.

confused! Old buddy! You haven't replied to the link I sent you on the other question yet.
The one about the gangs of men raping children in South Africa.

It appears you are another one who hides behind the race card when they have nothing substantial to say.
I hope your partner reads all this - he might have something more substantial to say.

Why do you change the issue about what the administration is doing in South Africa to what the government is doing here?

I thought you were fairly bright, but now I'm starting to have my doubts. You don't seem to have a basic grasp of the context of recent history.
The US aided the Afghan ( Talliban has one 'l' by, by the way) resistence because we had a common enemy - the Soviet Union. Remember them?

You're correct about US foreign policy, though, we should let the rest of the world sink or swim.

'...actively financing the apartheid government during the 70's...'
You missed your calling. Write spy novels.

Oh, and if 'your government' knew that the buck stops with them, why are children being gang - raped?

The link on the other question is under the last two words I typed - 'wake up'.

Or are you deliberately ignoring it?

confused - You are absolutely correct.
It is of no consequence if babies only get raped by one man.
But then again, it is of no consequence to you, specifically - you and your partner are never going to have children, anyway.
So, why the f**k should you care, right?

Anyone else visiting this forum, all you have to do is google 'child rapes in South
Africa' - and you can see the extensive information on this terrible nightmare.
Hopefully there are some people out there that place morality before the willingness to make excuses for the savagery in South Africa.
God knows, that country needs it right now.

Is that racist enough for you?

confused - my apologies - you used the term' partner', so I assumed you were gay. Never assume, right?

What the f*ck are you googling? There is EXTENSIVE info on kids being raped by gangs in the paradise that is South Africa.

And you are correct, this is about facts.

Fact - Men, sometimes gangs of men, rape children in South Africa believing they will be cured of AIDS.

Fact - South Africa is being destroyed by AIDS (amongst other things) at a higher rate than anywhere else in the world. Not only from the disease itself, but through ignorance to the nature of the disease and the government's refusal to admit they have a problem.

Now, while you proceed to split the hairs on this one to find any excuse for your so-called government's indifference, a bunch more people are going to drop dead of AIDS at the same time that some kids probably got raped.

confused (perfect name for you) - You're very sneaky about the way you say you have nothing more to say to me, but sneak back and amend your previous answers as I call you on your quickly unravelling b******t.
GOOGLE is a perfect source of info, it is not irrelevent. At the touch of a button, anyone can call someone on their b******t.
Just as I keep doing to you time and time again.

Oh, go back to the other question and read Alf Garnett's posting.
It kicks your apologetic, amoral crap in the a** better than I do.

seeker - your assessement of google could be applied to any other source of info.
So, unless you're an authority on any given subject, google and the internet is the best place to go.
If you need corroboration, google it again.

Jorge S - You have absolutely no class at all. That usually is a result of upbringing. It's tought dignifying your crap with a response
Also, take some writing lessons.

You and the ANC apologist are both cowards who hide behind the race card when faced with reality.

wagbietjie - Afrikaans name? Hmmmm...so you live in what used to be South Africa, too. Guess you're another one that will support your Marxist, one party government until the last person drops dead of AIDS.

I was going to resolve this question, but I'm going to leave it up awhile longer and see how many more idiots, apologists and moral cowards I can net. This is too much fun!

Andre C - Someone with brains who sees that the emperor is buck naked. But now you run the risk of being called a racist.

tay jen 1 - You seem extremely upset that you're there living amongst the AIDS and crime, and I'm here in my safe neighborhood and dollar that actually buys something.
I'm sorry how things turned out, but that's the way it goes.

uselessadvice - Perfect name.
Of course, it's always apartheid's fault. Silly me, it's children with no control over their faculties running what used to be South Africa.
Children that have had aid from the First World and still managed to f**k it up.

It's sad and telling when BLACK people tell me they were better off fifteen years ago over there.
Your comment on the 'the gun toting hicks' tells me you've you've either been watching too many movies, been listening to too many country and western songs, or are ignorantly bigoted to a class of people you've never really met, as well as being extremely ignorant to the context of recent history.

Oklahoma City was the work of a single nutcase who had help from several other nutcases. McVeigh got the chair, and those that helped him are sitting behind bars for life.
9/11 was the work of followers of a suicidal movement that is primarily defined by race and religious affiliations.

You need help.




O

tay jen ! - Sweetie, we don't have crime and poverty and disease on a mass scale over here.
Not even close,
And if your useless government was dealing with it - why do you have such crime and poverty and disease at all?
Sorry, was I attacking you?

Blondie 13 - refer to the note I left you on the other question. I'm partial to X Box games when I find time to play.
And sweetie, if you knew the difference to living over there compared to living over here, you'd pack up all your s**t and leave today.

What's interesting is that my other question on this subject got deleted because of a violation Email, based on 'insulting other participants.'
Not once did I whine about the downright nasty names thrown my way all the time it stayed up. But then again, I'm an adult - sticks and stones and all that.
No matter, we have this question, which I'm sure has its days numbered also.

Once it gets deleted - up it goes again.

andy - My dear fellow, you are a very angry individual.

Answer 1

I asked a "colored" south african, a half white half black guy about why it is so violent there. He said it is because abunch of corrupt "Revolutionaries" took over the government and started stealing money leaving many parts of the country without road repairs, job creation,ect. Workers rights were being stepped on and taxes kept getting higher. Theres not enough cops to fight the level of crime there is.

South Africa is now taking away farms from whites, so sounds like South Africa will soon be another Zimbabwe

Answer 2

A simple question with so many answers.

Rebels/terrorist/freedom fighters, call them what you will. The ANC became the legitimate government but could not give up their old friends and allies and their old beliefs. Thus they support despots and bad governments around their borders. This brings in floods of migrants escaping the tyranny and starvation!

They seem to believe AIDS is not a problem and that good diet can prevent it!!! White propaganda or worse. What things to be saying as millions of their own people succumb to aids!!

They made promises that were simply unobtainable in the short to medium term if at all. Houses for everyone!!! Not a single country in the western world has achieved that!!!

There is corruption. There is racial bias in all directions and many political policies made for the right reasons but which actually work against the interests of the country because they have not been properly thought through.

But do not despair. I have been visiting South Africa Since the mid sixties and over the last twelve years on a yearly basis. There have been tremendous changes and achievments. These vary with location and Jo'burg will take a very long time to get right simply because of it's many significant problems.

But please take another look a lot has been achieved.

The significant problem South Africa now faces is that it is becoming far too expensive!! I used to buy a lot there. I dont now as almost any other country is cheaper!! I used to buy a lot of SA wine but I dont now because it is not good value against the cheaper comparable wines from around the world.

I have to say I agree with your view of SAPs. A frightened, unprofessional, disorganised force with no go areas.

Answer 3

You are a piece of work. Firstly Seeker is absolutely right about google - and just googling again as per your idiotic and imbicile suggestion would just bring up some more rubbish. It is a search engine (and NOT a source) and sources should always be double-checked. From your tirade against Confused who beat your **** into submission and squeezed your balls to a pulp, one can see that she is obvious the expert here and you the illiterate sexual pervert (isn't that what you got fired from your job for per your other question?). Immediately attacking anyone who disagrees with you on a personal level instead of their argument as you did with everyone here including Confused (who you assumed must be gay because she had you by the balls - what a racist BIGOT you are) shows that you are an ignorant white male who is both a racist and a bigot.

Confused's argument was well-based in corroborated facts and very accurate on all sides. Yours however was not an argument but a tirade. You could not even quote one source even though she repeatedly asked you to do that.

Confused is the winner here!!!

Answer 4

It truly saddens me to read questions such as these. South Africa is not perfect, there is not a single country in the world that is perfect. Show me a single government in the world who take full responsibility for their actions? Does your government take full responsibility for their actions?

What do you want people to say to you? That you are right? Sitting in your plush home in your first world country? What the hell do you know about actually living in South Africa. It is easy to judge from afar.

So now you have let the entire world know your opinions on South Africa - congratulations to you! Here's a thought, why dont you fix the mess in your own country before judging us!

*sigh* not once did i say i am extremely upset about living in South Africa. If you had stuck to your facts and made a rational argument then I would have had a bit more respect for you but all you do is attack all the people who live in south africa. Yes it is not pleasant living amongst the crime and poverty and disease. As I am sure it is unpleasant living amongst the crime and poverty and disease in your own country. The difference is that we try to deal with what's happening here, I did not vote in this government and I do not agree with a vast majority of what they do but this is my country and I am not going to run away with my tail between my legs. Keeping freedom of speech in mind I am going to ask that you refrane from attacking me in any other correspondance. Oh and I am not jealous of your dollars... i would much rather have pounds thats all.

Answer 5

It's interesting that I stumbled upon this topic. I'm South African, but currently living in the USA, and have been for over a year. Each time I go back home, I feel saddened - by what I see around me: uneducated people who haven't a clue how to run a country, never mind sit by a shop counter and get a move on about getting me my change, very poor service, disrespect and just generally not giving a crap about you or who you are...I guess spending time overseas where things are relatively orderly and under control has made me realise how much of a mess the place is. I returned home for 3 months, and in that time, have never heard so much negativity about the country in my life - friends hurt by farm attacks, friends lost by hijackings, etc. Everyone ALWAYS had something negative to say about the country. It was extremely depressing, and all I could ever think about was how to get back to the States. I knew it was like that, having lived in SA all my life, but my outlook on the country has changed drastically.
This is unfortunately how it is, but the situation has forced me to emigrate the country for good, and find a better life elsewhere. I don't think I can stand another day in SA, frankly. I'm heading back there next month because my work in New York is ending, but other than seeing my friends and family again, I'm not looking forward to the trip home. Once I get my final ticket out of there, there's no going back.
As South Africans, would you not agree that this is such a shame? That the violence and distrust has led to many of us leaving forever? I'm only 20 yrs old, but leaving already. About 45% of people my age, mostly English-speaking, considered leaving by the time they finished highschool. I always try to keep a positive mindset, but I just can't push myself to feeling any patriotism at all.
Agree?

Answer 6

I would like to point out that Google, and in fact the Internet as a whole, is far from a perfect source of information. Anyone can post anything they want without regard for accuracy or verifiability. Information gleaned from the Internet should not be offered or accepted as "fact" unless it can be independently corroborated.

Answer 7

Its always been an awful mess. its just that the white supremacists in South Africa were insulated from the suffering and misery of the other 90% of the population. Now they have to live with the reality of the mess they created.

BTW Its a shame the US didn't have its current policy on terrorism when the Oklahoma city bombing occurred. Perhaps they would have had a second civil war and got rid of all the gun-touting hicks that inhabit the southern states.

Answer 8

We (America) are so concerned with Korea and the Middle East, that we ignore the places where the worst human rights violations are occuring (Africa, China, etc.). I feel that our government thinks that nothing is to be gained politically or financially by helping to rehabilitate Africa, and they don't want to mess with China, so unfortunately people will continue to suffer needlessly. It would be nice if we could at least help them develop themselves agriculturally and to a point, economically. Great question. Hope someone has the answer.

Answer 9

The goverment is sleeping can't you see.My country is amongst themost beatifulst their is.The big but our people who is in charge is money and power hungry.Aids has become an internasional crisis and still we don't aknowlgde it as the number one couse of death.Crime runs wild those with education and ambition doesn't have a work and leave the country.Kill the crimanals and sterilize everyone with aids.Vote for a new and better presedent.

Answer 10

Not just now, it's been a mess for an awful long time. A few decades isn't going to change things. It will take several generations if not longer....