Let’s assume that God doesn’t exist for the sake of this argument...?

Question

Let’s follow logic...
The universe is all there is, nothing can exist before it. It’s not like empty space that can be filled, not even by pure thought, or pure energy... There’s NOTHING... No time, no space, no dimension, no raw materials, no energy. It’s total non-existence. So either a) the universe was born with God and is thus 1) not about 13 to 14 billion years old but is eternal and 2) has not created God. b) Another angle would be that the universe created God afterwards but then this is just a circular argument, a vicious circle. The universe must exist before creating anything and the universe cannot exist without a space-time continuum. Where did the space-time continuum come from? Where did the raw materials or energy to create the universe come from? They can’t just pop into existence from nothing.
Don’t take my word for it, check the laws of physics...
Your thoughts?...

Answer 1

How does any of this prove or disprove God?

Answer 2

Nobody knows this yet. There is an interesting new theory called m-theory that time did exist before and after the big bang. This still does not solve the problem of the beginning of everything, though. This is where theology has come into play, and taken the easy way out. God did it is the answer they give. This does not solve anything however. It has only given many a false sense of truth, and created more questions. Physics and cosmology are just barely cracking open the door on what our universe is, or could be. We may eventually know more, but will probably never know all.

Answer 3

The Universe shows design and you cant have design without a designer. God is that designer and he is eternal, the universe is not. It has a beginning and it will have an end. I dont know why God decided to create so many things in the universe that man cant explain, but who are any of us to question God? Reasoning about the origin of the universe and what was/was not there before it is beyond man's mental capacity. Only God knows that answer and it will be revealed to man eventually...maybe. The bottom line is that you can never assume for the sake of any argument that God doesnt exist b/c God existed before all and will exist longer than all material things.

Answer 4

The laws of physics break down more and more the closer we go back to the big bang. Who's to say this universe is all there is. Scientists have proposed a new theory called M theory, the theory of everything. They're claiming that its possible that our Universe sprouted from two colliding universes and they further go on as saying there could be bubbles and bubbles of universes each with their own differing dimensions. They say there could be alternate universes parallel to ours saying in another universe Elvis is still alive. By the way they are now claiming the universe is actually older and bigger than they first imagined it saying its 15.8 Billion years old and 150 or so billion light years wide. If that does not blow your mind nothing will. A light year is 6 trillion miles, just one light year and their saying we live in a universe of 150 billion light years across, that makes me feel like a grain of sand then cut that grain into 1 million pieces and that still wouldn't get me to my significance in this universe.

I do believe the universe was created by God, then you ask what created God, but I say we did not pop out of no where and Gods abilities I can not prove, humans have proven theirs...I will go with God on that one.

Answer 5

You're right, according to the laws of physics there couldn't have been a such thing as empty space with no matter, no energy, no nothing...unless, those laws of physics didn't exist yet...(I know something else to make the brain hurt just thinking about it).

But really, you're talking about things that as best as we humans can understand it, we use words like "infinity" and "eternal" because we can't fathom with our little human brains a real concept of a beginning or an end. It's difficult in our realm of knowledge to come up with any concrete answers of what came first the Universe, or God, I mean, we're still struggling with the whole "chicken or egg" thing!

Answer 6

The following reference material (from Google) requires a very intellectual and philosophical mind to digest and understand, but by all means read and ponder.

Google “Brains in a vat” for the latest reference material.

It basically suggests and refutes that we (you or anyone) are just brains in a vat connected to a super-computer because we are able to ask the question are we just brains in a vat. Unfortunately the theory is flawed because it assumes we are dealing with human brains in a vat, but that may not be the case.

It is possible that everything we think, feel, touch, hear, believe, sense, taste, smell, you name it is in fact virtual, and everything science or religion puts forward is virtual. It is possible that all the troubles in the world are virtual. It is possible that the universe is virtual, and therefore the intelligence in a vat will never know the answers to anything in our world or universe. It is possible that we are some form of intelligence in a vat, and therefore we are virtual and don't exist in the form or manner that we believe we do. It is possible that we may not even be human.

Should the above state (brains in a vat) truly exist then you would be unable to prove to anyone through any medium that you exist, never mind the universe or God.

Apart from the above, I'm sorry to say that your logic is also flawed and reflects a deep lack of knowledge regarding science and physics, but that's another long reply which I will save you the embarrassment from.

Answer 7

The problem with your assumption is that you put yourself into a box with no logical way out. Sticking to just basic definitions accepted by most reasonable people, the universe is composed of material elements and God is the Supreme Spirit. The universe and space-time is energy and God the energetic, the source of all energy. Therefore its illogical to assume that the universe came before God, unless of course, we're just playing with words. The energetic is first, then the energy.

Spirit by nature is not material, but it can influence matter. We are spirit, the conscious soul within the body, and we are directing the body and mind constantly. Similarly, the Supreme Spirit directs the entire body of the material world -- which BTW is composed of billions of universes, not just this one.

Answer 8

The only problem is that the laws of physics apply to the world and universe as we know them. When the universe was created (By God or by chance, I'm not even going to open that Pandora's box), the laws of physics may have been different. We don't know, and we can't know because we've never had any knowledge of things outside of what it is currently like.

Answer 9

I can't really understand your argument. I know for a fact God does exist, not only by logic but from personal experience. Do you know what create means-to make something out of nothing. Like you create a picture (drawing). I know that when I didn't have God in my life, everything I tried to do alone and/or with others like me b4, failed.

Answer 10

I don't know what you question could possibly be going by this little science lesson, but you started out negatively by using the expression, "for the sake of the argument".

If you are looking for Christians to answer a question, you would be better off asking a real question, not provoking an argument. If you are trying to demonstrate your level of science education, try the Education category.

In the meantime, don't be disappointed that God created the earth, moon, stars, sun and people. He did all that He could, but we goofed up what He gave us by sinning and spreading our "attitudes" around a perfect world.

Answer 11

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God.

Or, from the physics perspective, the universe as we know it began with the Big Bang.

We don't know about what happened before the Beginning, or before the Big Bang.