Let´s assume that god exists for the sake of this argument...?

Question

Let´s follow logic...
The universe is all there is, nothing can exist beyond it. It´s not like empty space that can be filled, not even by pure thought, or pure energy... There´s NOTHING... No time,no space, no dimension. It´s total nonexistence. So either a) god was born with the universe and is thus 1) not eternal but is about 13 to 14 billion years old and 2) has not created the universe. Another angle would be that he created the universe standing in another universe but then we fall back on point a) in this older universe. It´s a vicious circle. God must exist before creating anything and he cannot exist without a spacetime continuum.
Don´t take my word for it, check the laws of physics...
Your thoughts?...

Answer 1

That's been one of my sticking points when debating fellow believers. Nothing exists without having come from something. To me God is like the last of a dying race or perhaps even a far advanced alien life form.

I think people get caught up too often in the stories of the bible as being absolute, when I believe that many times it is more of an instruction manual, more or less. After all, some entity could be God to us, without being God as is generally defined.

I'm pretty sure that if time machines existed, we could take current technology back to most times in human development and the people of those times would either consider you to be a God or Devil, depending on how strong they were in their beliefs. They would certainly see us as a higher being, one way or the other.

Answer 2

Let’s assume that God doesn’t exist for the sake of this argument...?
Let’s follow logic...
The universe is all there is, nothing can exist before it. It’s not like empty space that can be filled, not even by pure thought, or pure energy... There’s NOTHING... No time, no space, no dimension, no raw materials, no energy. It’s total non-existence. So either a) the universe was born with God and is thus 1) not about 13 to 14 billion years old but is eternal and 2) has not created God. b) Another angle would be that the universe created God afterwards but then this is just a circular argument, a vicious circle. The universe must exist before creating anything and the universe cannot exist without a space-time continuum. Where did the space-time continuum come from? Where did the raw materials or energy to create the universe come from? They can’t just pop into existence from nothing.
Don’t take my word for it, check the laws of physics...
Your thoughts?...

Answer 3

My religion is the only one that I know of that addresses this issue. In the LDS church, many believe that God has a Father, and he had a Father, and so forth. So, basically, according to this view, Gods have always existed, creating their own worlds (and most likely galaxies, or multiple systems of galaxies). Billions of inhabited worlds could exist within a system of galaxies. Of course, most outside of our religion have a hard time accepting these views. So, in my opinion our God (who created our world and galaxy) probably did not create the entire universe, and yes, was "born", but that does not make Him not eternal. I believe that we have all always existed in some form (not reincarnation) but as intelligence, then spirits, then our current mortal state, then eventually in the immortal state God is now in. In my opinion, God is not some abstract princible or being, but someone very real, and I do think we look very like Him. I could say much more on the matter, but hopefully that should suffice. Again, this is one view the majority of Christianity does not embrace, and one doctrine we don't preach a lot because of its depth and because there still is uch we do not yet know. We cannot FULLY comprehend these ideas as of yet, because mortals cannot fully grasp the meaning of eternal or infinite.

Answer 4

You forget that God is not energy or matter or mass. You can't conceive or imagine him. He created the very thing of existence.
As Humans, we can only understand the creation, what is around us. Think about it, do you think the five senses are the only ways of communicating and gathering data in the universe.
Can one even comprehend a new sense besides the six sense.
Don't forget that God created time and space.
This is all because existence isn't the ultimate reality, God is reality. If you think of a man or shape, or gaseous substance you are thinking creation. We can't comprehend him because we only know of what's in existence and the senses we have are only capable of retaining data within creation. We don't even have the faculties to comprehend reality, reality is something that last forever and can't die, nor has a begginging. the universe wil end so it is not reality. there is only one reality, The Creator.

Answer 5

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.

To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.

Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.

Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

To one who examines the evidence, there can be no doubt that God exists. Every building has a builder. Everything made has a maker. The fact of the existence of the Creator is axiomatic (self-evident). That’s why the Bible says, "The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’" (Psalm 14:1). The professing atheist denies the common sense given to him by God, and defends his belief by thinking that the question "Who made God?" can’t be answered. This, he thinks, gives him license to deny the existence of God.

The question of who made God can be answered by simply looking at space and asking, "Does space have an end?" Obviously, it doesn’t. If there is a brick wall with "The End" written on it, the question arises, "What is behind the brick wall?" Strain the mind though it may, we have to believe (have faith) that space has no beginning and no end. The same applies with God. He has no beginning and no end. He is eternal.

The Bible also informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called "eternity." God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.

Because we live in the dimension of time, logic and reason demand that everything must have a beginning and an end. We can understand the concept of God’s eternal nature the same way we understand the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith. We simply have to believe they are so, even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrums.

Answer 6

Sad to say this question can not be properly answered with the bible. However, by other religious means, the universe as we know it is one and many. There are others, but science can not prove that just yet.
Universes are constantly being 'born and 'die' if I may use such words to describe what I am saying. We are said to be in the 28 cycle of this universe being created and destroyed. There have and still has others.

Our scriptures have taught us about this reality.
This is why our's is like no other, but incoperates all other.

Answer 7

OK, WOW... This is definitely a concept that I continually struggle with, but, this is one perspective that I tend to lean towards, I hope it gives you something to think about... and what you were kinda-sorta-looking for

OK, Einsteins' Theory of Relativity, right? E=mc2... There is not time, time is relative to where we are right now; meaning you are being born, dying everything else in your life inbetween those moments at the same "time." You are just stuck in the specific time frame of "now." Does this make sense? Time is relative to where you stand on the eternal perspective. Now this does not enforce "Destiny" or "pre-destination" in christianity in my opinion. I believe we've already made the decisions that we're going to make and even if we try to "change" our path that change has already happened. Look at it on a biblical perspective; Jesus showed John in Revelations the end of the world as it was actually happening. How did Jesus do that? How did he know what was and is going to happen? There's billions of endless possibilities that could change that outcome before it happened. So how was it possible? Because.... it already happened and due to the "divine" powers of Jesus he was able to manipulate time and space to take John to another place/frame in time when it was happening. Does this make a little sense?
"Beginning" and "End" are terms that are so finite that it is almost impossible for anyone to truly understand and grasp the concept of "eternity" "infinity" or the fact that there was no beginning at all. God just is. There is no beginning and no end, there just "is," and this is very difficult for a lot of christian and even non-christians and the scientific world to accept. I believe in God and I believe in the evolution of man, I just don't believe that man has found the right medium in between the two. God created physics, chemistry and biology and doing so, he knows how to manipulate them in ways that are unimaginable to man. Am I full of crap??? Probably, but this is something to think about at night....

Answer 8

Not all things can be explained !! Even science is made up of theories. If you think of God as a being, you set all the limitations of a being. I personally believe God is everything, we are but a mere molecule in the essence of God. Since in effect everything is connected, from the tiniest atom to the multitude of universes we all have a effect on each other, this is God !!

Answer 9

i like what you do but i could be wrong depending on your defenition of "god".. Life doesnt neccersarily require a god. Maybe a higher order but why cant things just exist for the sake of doing so. But maybe there is some justice in our universe but even then for what so that i maybe can go to a higher place for becoming who i was born to become. I like your think write a book or something. I f there is justice i think it would be possibly through reincarnation of some sort ya know. i do know where your coming from i come from the same place for the most part.

Answer 10

That's a tidy argument, but God, since He is most probably a work of fiction, is not subject to the Laws of physics.