Question for practicing Jews:?

Question

What do you believe about Jesus and what prevents you from acepting Him as the Jewish Messiah?

Also, ever heard of Rosalind Moss?
http://www.catholic.com/seminars/moss.asp

mo mosh:

What "requirements" are those?

Answer 1

What exactly is the Messiah?

The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew word "Mashiach", which means "Anointed." It usually refers to a person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3)

Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be referred to as "an anointed one" (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For example: "God forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand against the Lord's Messiah [Saul]..." (I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel 23:1, Isaiah 45:1, Psalms 20:6)

Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Isaiah 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Many of these prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)

Since every King is a Messiah, by convention, we refer to this future anointed king as The Messiah. The above is the only description in the Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in the future. We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection.

1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH

A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

B. CRUCIFIXION

The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

C. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

For further reading on the "suffering servant":
www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html

4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION (back)

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.

Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God's true prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since others did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his word for it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show -- assuming they are genuine -- is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):

The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)

Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.


5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. GOD AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS GOD?

Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.

Answer 2

We believe that he was a man who died. What prevents us from believing that he is the messiah is the fact that WE ARE HERE. When the messiah comes, the world will end. That is it. Their is no second chances. Plus, at that time, the temple was not built and the messiah cannot come until the temple is built. Also, we do not believe that god can reproduce with humans or in immaculate conseption or in virgin birth. That is all. For now. Oh, and we only worship god and no one else. Our relationship is directly to god and doesn't need a middle man.

Answer 3

Jesus (nor anyone else yet through history) did not fullfill any of the "job requirements" for the Messiah clearly outlined in the Hebrew Bible.

Sorry.

Answer 4

Good question? Have no answers I am just as curious as you are.

I now see the very lengthly & insightful answers above me here.... My question to them is: Is the "torah" pretty much just the old testament of what us Christians know as the Bible?
Do you not have the New testement???
Just curious....don't know much/anything about it. Thanks.

& No I have never heard of Rosalind Moss.

God Bless
btw I am a Christian who believes Jesus died for our sins.

Answer 5

There is no such thing as a practicing Jew. It's a way of life and a form of inheritance and descent. That you would ask the question in this manner shows that you understand less about Jews than Jews understand about you. In business, there is a basic tenet that you should define and understand the market you're trying to sell to. You're trying to sell Christianity. Better learn about your target market before you start selling to it.

Answer 6

The following links may surprise you. No offense has been intended:
http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Why_Jews_Dont_Believe_In_Jesus.asp

http://jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general_messiah-criteria02.html
st
regarding your questions:
b) I've never heard of the person.
a) I believe he existed, but that he was just an eccentric, and mislead, person. I wouldn't even give him the status of a false-prophet.

Answer 7

I'm not a Jew but you should recognize that you only copied off their God.
Tammi Dee

Answer 8

he was a traitor to the Jewsih ppl, he sold us out to the romans. thats why we dont except him

Answer 9

never heard of Rosalind Moss....

The basic beliefs of Christianity about Jesus are against what the Bible says, and so Real Jews cannot believe in Jesus at all.

The Christian understanding is that the Messiah, Jesus, died for the sins of the people. The messiah is supposed to be a human sacrifice that is the blood sacrifice necessary for the forgiveness of sin.

But we are taught in our Torah that no one can die for the sins of another. In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not
be put to death for the children, neither
shall the children be put to death for
the fathers:
every man shall be put to death for his
own sin (eesh b’chet-o yumatu).

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself to atone for the sins of the people. To be written out of Gd's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. Gd's response is No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:

Exodus 32:30-35 And it came to pass on the
morrow, that Moses said unto the people,
Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will
go up unto the Etrnl; perhaps I shall make
an atonement for your sin. And Moses
returned unto the Etrnl, and said, Oh,
this people have sinned a great sin, and
have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if
thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not,
blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book
which thou hast written. And the Etrnl
said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned
against me, him will I blot out of my
book.

The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for Gd's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd will forgive us:::

Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27 .....Behold, all
souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so
also the soul of the son is mine: the soul
that sinneth, it shall die. Eze 18:20 The soul
that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not
bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall
the father bear the iniquity of the son: the
righteousness of the righteous shall be upon
him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be
upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all
his sins that he hath committed, and keep all
my statutes, and do that which is lawful and
right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he hath committed,
they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his
righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked
should die? saith the Etrnl Gd: and not that
he should return from his ways, and live?....
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away
from his righteousness, and committeth
iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity
that he hath done shall he die. Again, when
the wicked man turneth away from his
wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth
that which is lawful and right, he shall save
his soul alive.

So, the Bible is clear, no one can die for the sins of another, and this means that Jesus cannot die for anyone else's sins.

Christians also believe that one needs a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, that one who does not have such a blood sacrifice will die in their sins, and go to hell, except for the sacrifice of Jesus.

This, too, is UnBiblical. The Bible describes blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin in the Book of Leviticus. But it is in Leviticus itself, in the middle of the discussion of the sin sacrifices, that we are taught that we do not need a blood sacrifice to be forgiven for our sins. Offering a blood sacrifice was an expensive thing to do for the family offering the animal. Was forgiveness then, to be only for the rich? No, because if one could not afford a blood sacrifice then one who sins could bring flour, which has no blood and no life as their sacrifice, and Gd forgave them!

Leviticus 5:11-13; But if he be not able to
bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons,
then he that sinned shall bring for his
offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine
flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil
upon it, neither shall he put any
frankincense thereon: for it is a sin
offering.

Furthermore, read the Book of Jonah. In Jonah, the People of Ninevah do three things in order to be forgiven by Gd. They fast, they pray for forgiveness, and they stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgave them! This is exactly what we do on Yom Kippur, we fast, we pray for forgiveness, and, hopefully, we stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and Gd forgives us. And what book do we read on Yom Kippur afternoon? The Book of Jonah!

Jonah 3:7-10 And he caused it to be proclaimed
and published through Ninevah, by the decree
of the King and his nobles, saying, Let
neither man nor beast, herd nor flock taste
anything; let them not feed nor drink water;
but let man and beast be covered with
sackcloth, and cry mightily unto Gd; yea, let
them turn every one from his evil way, and
from the violence that is in their hands. Who
can tell if Gd will turn and repent, and turn
away from his fierce anger that we perish not?
And Gd saw their works, that they turned from
their evil way; and Gd repented of the evil,
that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did not do it.

Please notice that Jonah tells us that Gd saw their WORKS, their deeds, how they turned from their evil ways, and Gd forgave them. It does not say that Gd saw their blood sacrifice, they never offered one. It does not say that Gd forgave them because they had the right faith, but rather it says that Gd forgave them because of their deeds!

Furthermore, Where were the sacrifices to have taken place? In the Temple built by Solomon. And what did Solomon himself say at the dedication of this very Temple where these sacrifices were to take place?

1 Kings 8:46-50 If they sin against thee, (for
there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be
angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy,
so that they carry them away captives unto the
land of the enemy, far or near; Yet if they
shall bethink themselves in the land whither
they were carried captives, and repent, and make
supplication unto thee in the land of them that
carried them captives, saying, We have sinned,
and have done perversely, we have committed
wickedness; And so return unto thee with all
their heart, and with all their soul, in the
land of their enemies, which led them away
captive, and pray unto thee toward their land,
which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city
which thou hast chosen, and the house which I
have built for thy name: Then hear thou their
prayer and their supplication in heaven thy
dwelling place, and maintain their cause, And
forgive thy people that have sinned against
thee, and all their transgressions wherein they
have transgressed against thee, and give them
compassion before them who carried them captive,
that they may have compassion on them:

So, at the dedication of the very place where these totally Unnecessary sacrifices were to take place, Solomon tells us that all we have to do is Repent, Pray, Admit our sins, and stop doing the evil, and Gd forgives, and all with no blood sacrifice!!

The term 'messiah' means 'one annointed' to do a specific task or tasks by Gd. Jesus fulfilled not even one of these tasks, thats why Christians created the idea of a 2nd Coming, claiming Jesus would do what the Real Messiah will do the first time around.