Does a beautiful sunset, a newborn baby and the glory of nature make you feel close to God?

Question

So how then, do you feel when you see starving and sick children; those who are horrifically injured in war and others who spend their brief childhoods being beaten and abused by those who are supposed to love them?

If God is love, then he is also pain, suffering and torment.

How on earth is it that you can justify this to yourself.

I don't wish to sound badgering or confrontational, but I've never heard a sensible explanation of how Christians or other people of faith can come to terms with this obvious discrepancy.

YourDreamDoc: If my parents harmed me the way some children in this world are harmed - then I would have to conclude that they did not love me. The took care of me, and kept me out of danger. That's what love is. So, your argument doesn't really stand up, I'm afraid.

Answer 1

I fully agree and we can't come to terms with this and that's why so many of us are so sick at heart right now, and why we're losing Faith instead of gaining it under GW Bush.

George Bush's christians have all their faith in money, power, war (large-scale thievery), and other false gods and golden calves.

It is not God who torments those poor, sweet, innocent children. But He does seem to be allowing more and more of it to happen, and we don't seem to be maturing or otherwise learning anything by it. I just feel more hopeless and negative every day, and I used to be such a starry-eyed optimist who could always cheer everybody up, even on the very worst days.

Someone just posted another question about what I would like most for Christmas. I instantly made a list and sent it. As always, then I want in to see how my answer fared among everyone else's. Theirs were mostly all silly or hopeful or happy, and mine was so long and sad and serious, and on such a beautiful Sunday morning at sunrise. So I changed it so as to not depress anyone there. Here's what I had before:

Peace on Earth
Unlimited Love
Economic justice
Social equality for all
Freedom (instead of using the name while giving us fascism)
Liberty (instead of using the name for martial law, especially after dark)
The Pursuit of Happiness (it would be nice to actually find it once in awhile before some thieving Pimp in Washington figures out we're getting it and takes that last little bit, too)
Capitalism (instead of using the name for corrupt inside-trading and collusion/price fixing Big Business infomercial for life)
Justice (instead of the balance scales saying that the never-ending desires of 230,000 rich Swine always outweigh the most basic needs of the other 275 million of us.)
Dignity (I barely remember what it was but I know I liked it)
Pride in Being American (Instead of it being a horribly embarrassing disfigurement and permanent handicap all of a sudden, mostly due to the WTO/World Bank/NWO robbing us and the entire rest of the world, and all the false wars our Greed engenders-- past, present, and certainly future.)

But of course I can't have any of that, so I just want one day a year where I wake up and still feel like it's all worth it, and I can't think of a better day than Christmas.
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That's my list and I believe that's how most of us true Christians feel about Mr. Bush's christians. They're christians in the same way that Hitler was a good catholic boy. They've read the Bible and been told all their lives what Christ said and what He stood for, and yet they turn their backs on Him and His Wisdom and Teachings and Examples to follow the likes of George Bush.

That's the most sensible explanation I can come up with. I wish it would have had a happier ending. It will in the Next Life, so I guess it's worth hanging around and waiting for, and it helps me to get through this one. And I still have the beauty of sunsets, I get to see newborn babies and coo for them, and there's still the glory of nature, even if I have to drive farther to see it. That's something to tide me over until then. Thank you very much for such a good question. It is they who are confrontational, not the likes of us who pursue an end to violence, oppression, and starvation. We are starving and oppressed in America, too. We got rid of a dictator in Iraq, but we gained one in America. I don't think the world broke even. I certainly haven't begun to.

Peace and love!

Answer 2

Hi Donna


I understand exactly what you are saying, because I felt the same way for 50 years. All of those years I was upset about this seemingly nonsensical idea of a loving God could allow these things to happen. My problem with it was perhaps even more acute because I was a severely abused child by any measure of the accepted understanding of abuse.

I saw no possibility that this idea was anything but nonsense. I got so caught up in this idea that I actually prayed one evening to a God that I did not really believe existed. I ask it to explain this version of a loving God to me in a way that made sense.

I went to sleep that night certain that the imaginary God could not possibly show me that my childhood had been anything other than the horror I had seen it as for the past 50 years.

When I awoke the next morning the first thing that I thought of was my challenge to God the previous evening. I began to think back on the events of my childhood. It was as though I was seeing it clearly for the first time in my life. No matter what I thought of it all seemed like the perfect set of stepping stones to lead me to the exact moment that I was experiencing. A moment where I saw my life as beautiful and perfect exactly the way that it was. I moment when I loved myself exactly the way I was.

I realized that I would not change a single thing that had happened in my life, for fear that If I changed anything it might be one of the things that had lead me to that moment where I loved my life and myself and saw the perfection of all of it.

I thought that I was somehow mistaken about this, and I tried to think of something in my past that I did not see as this foundation for this understanding I was experiencing. No matter how hard I tried there was simply nothing there. I told my self that this must be some kind of a misunderstanding that I was having that would soon pass.

That was 7 years ago, nothing has changed. I still see my childhood that I had seen as a horror for 50 years, as being the perfect set of stepping stones to teach me that I am perfect the way God created me, and nothing that I or anyone else can do can change this fact.

Perhaps just now this does not make sense to you, someday it will. Trust me on this.

Love and blessings Donna.
don

Answer 3

God is not pain, suffering and torment, nor is God a sunset, a newborn or a summer's day. God is the eternal intelligent energy that courses through everyone and everything.

Any conventionally religious person who doesn't accept the truth of reincarnation comes to conclusion consciously or subconsciously that their 'God' *must* be unfair or indifferent. The source of life - whether it's called God or the Cosmos or Jiminy Cricket - created the universal laws of physics, chemistry, karma... The souls of everyone existed prior to this birth. We are eternal, without beginning or end. And we have free will. Every person alive made the choice to become incarnate and to develop and grow as a separate human being - without divine intervention. The meaning of life is to interact and gain wisdom through our interactions with each other.

Most humans don't realize that we are all part of the same source, the same cosmos, which is God. Not the biblical 'God' which is a patchwork of superstitions and senseless dogma, but the true God. When we reach a point in our experiences when we can recognize God in everything and everyone (including ourselves), when we can understand the profound responsibility we collectively have for one another and the world in which we live, then we can begin to change the world. We're a long way from that, however, and as long as we "blame" 'God' or 'Satan' for the things for which we ourselves are responsible, we continue to live in dark confusion.

Answer 4

God does not cause misery, it is mankind and his greed which do that.
But for greedy men, their is no reason why anyone on earth should starve, yet it is for the starving to work their own way out of poverty, given the help and tools they need.
All men are born equal, all we possess is our bodies and the love of our parents, yet some get to be rich and some poor.
All men 10,000 years ago were poor, yet through hard work are rich today, and others who have not worked as hard are poor. I grant you that luck also plays a part, though generally people decide how hard they are prepared to work and how much they expect from life. This is called free will and God cannot intervene in that.

Answer 5

In each incarnation there are lessons to be learned. I believe we, our true selves (our inter spirit) choose the circumstances that we are born into and to help learn those lessons. Some lessons are harsh some are not. WE cannot understand joy and happiness, if we have never known sadness and or pain. The Gods are not all love and light. If you believe the christiant bible to be true even it says that God made all things even evil for the day of reckoning. You look at things through unknowing eyes and judge them. Only when you have learned all the lesson of life and reached enlightenment will all make sense. The mark of a great and advanced mind is the ability to accept the unacceptable.

Answer 6

wow, i had my answer before i saw the rest of your question, and you are being badgering and confrontational. you assume that god is to blame for the suffering on this earth. you want to imply that he is not good because of the suffering on this earth. god gave mankind free will to be however it is that he/she wants to be with this life they were given. he set down his laws, and let us take it from there. my answer before i read the rest of your query was, i feel peace when i see a beautiful sunset, a newborn baby, the glory of nature. i don't think it matters whether we feel closer to god or not, but that he feels closer to us when we care about the hurt that people feel, the harm caused to them for no particular reason other than the fact that there are cruel people in this world. this world is not his, but the devils', and he encourages us not to be a part of this world. the pain, suffering and torment you speak of is not caused by god. it is caused by those who are selfish, and don't care if they harm others in their quest to get what they want. their wants can be trivial...they want to look cool, make fun of someone...they want money, cheat someone...they are stingy, begrudge someone else of having something, anything.how can you justify saying god is pain, suffering, and torment? you have never suffered yourself, or you would know that his promise sustains you in moments of great pain, when you cannot understand how people can be so cruel.there is no discrepancy. god is love, mankind has the free will to be either good or bad. it's a choice each individual makes.

Answer 7

I don't come to terms with all the misery. I dissociate. I believe people are born good. And whatever becomes of them in their lives is down to the adults they encounter in their first 5 years of their lives or so. I remember watching the Orange marches (Northern Ireland) on television and seeing 3-and 4-year olds with hate in their eyes and banners proclaiming that hate. To me that amounts to child abuse. The same is happening all over the world. Does it never strike you that the poorest children in the world smile untill they just don't have the strength no more?
As to the first part of your question, i don't personify my belief. I believe in 'Spirit dimensions' and we, humans, are just vessels in the great scheme of things.
I believe world peace will be possible when all the adults have suffered the equal amount. Cause i believe without true suffering there can be no true caring.

Answer 8

Unfortunately "that's life", some people get a bad ride and others get a good one, But what goes around comes around and we will all get our rewards or punishments at some time be it in this life or the next. Don't think God has got anything to do with the suffering, humans are basically flawed and there will always be people who want to torment and cause others to suffer.

Answer 9

I can't justify any of it, but I know that it was never like this. In the beginning GOD warned Adam and Eve, (they didn't listen) they sinned then everything changed. GOD does not thrive on our pain, suffering and torment. HE actually wants the best for us all, (he has no preferences) Other times for us to get the best we go through hardships. Nothing last forever, even pain. As for war, human beings are responsible for their actions. We choose what to do or not do, so we are responsible.

Answer 10

Too many people make the mistake of assuming that, because God is love, He wouldn't let such things happen. Wrong! If you don't believe in God or follow Him, then don't expect to be helped. Read your Bible, or do a good Bible study, and you will realise the truth. Read, also, in the Old Testament, how many times the Israelites were horribly punished because they forsook God and did their own thing. Several people in the New Testament were killed by God because of sin.