Do people in heaven sin? No? Don't they have free will?

Question

If heaven is so great, why didn't we just have it to begin with?

To religious people, it sounds like I'm criticising their gods.

That's not it.

I want to know how you can believe things that make no sense to me?

Can I persuade just one person to use reason, not faith?

To Alicia,

Answer any way you want.

I'm asking if I can provoke just 1 person, to abandon faith, and embrace reason.

Mandy,
I am an atheist.

Toy Baby

I don't get your answer at all.

Matt S.

No sin can happen in heaven?

So we are better off without free will?

............
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I don't think it's a lie.

I think it's nonsensical; a folk tale.

Jennifer

I like your last 2 paragraphs.

Useless advice,

We needed the opportunity to make choices, and be tested?

If we make bad choices we cause pain and suffering.

We can end up going to hell.

This we needed?

Spirdle J

I think I made it clear, (can I reach just one person), I'm trying to persuade.

You refer me to Jonathan Edwards?

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. ?

This is a god of love?

As I recall, he describes a sinful child, being tortured with eternal fire.

Much, much worse than the Jesus, or Prometheus tortures.

I think Christianity could be called a torture cult.

Answer 1

Hunter, I like your question. As one of reason you may have thought through that there should be sufficient cause for an effect. Hence in the study of thought, one can conclude there must be a sufficient cause for each choice made. This of course is an intense subject to discourse.

In regards to Christianity in America, the majority part that's propagated has abandoned reason. However there are still remnants that hold to it. With high confidence I can tell you there is an answer to your precise question that is logically linear and reasonable. Actually the Christian faith is "reasonable" and can be shown as such and revealing that the lack of faith is unreasonable.

I'm not sure by what you wrote that you actually want an answer to your question for you mention the question you asked is intended to "persuade". I hope I'm not misunderstanding you.

Therefore I would like to send you a link to someone respected for centuries concerning this question you asked if you indeed are a person of "reason". Let's see if "reason" may persuade you, or not.

http://edwards.yale.edu/major-works/freedom-of-the-will/

I hope the best for you.

Regards.

Hi Again Hunter,
By your comments it appears you are building "straw-men" and knocking them down. Whoever is persuaded by you may lack substance. Both sides of this issue act in this same manner. It shouldn't be.
Regards and best wishes.
Sj

Answer 2

If heaven is so great, why didn't we just have it to begin with?

We lived with God as spirits before we came to earth. We saw that he had a glorious perfected body of flesh and bones and that he had power and knowlege far beyond our own. We wanted to become like him. To do so we needed to have the opportunity to make choices and make mistakes if need be. It was necessary to leave the presence of God, because it would be impossible to sin in his presence. We also needed the opportunity to learn how to use a physical body and how to have control over it. We were provided with this earth as a place to come and be tested. Those who pass the test here on earth go onto greater things.

Using reason is the reason I have Faith in God. I don't just believe blindly. I have experimented on the word of God and found it to be good. I have had spiritual experiences which convince me that God is real. Without faith this process of discovery cannot take place.

Answer 3

Faith is just what it says, FAITH, there is no tangible requirements for it, thats why its called Faith.

Heaven was created as a reward for having a good life. There is no sin in heaven. I do not know about free will in heaven since I have never died and experienced it myself. I do not feel that you are criticizing anyones deity.

I have a religion, but I also at time question all this afterlife stuff, after all, as mentioned above there is no tangible physical proof that anything beyond our current life exists. I think most people choose to believe because it gives them security, that they are not alone.

I am not saying that God or your religious icon does not exist, all I am saying is a normal mind would wonder, that is part of reason AND free will. We are made that way, to question.

Answer 4

It's hard to separate reason and faith when talking about religion. It drives people nuts, I know. But the basis of religion is faith which then does away with the requirement to need proof or argument.

Well if there is a heaven and the stories in the Bible didn't happen, the reason why we didn't "just begin with heaven" is becuase Adam and Eve disobeyed God. All humans were cast out of heaven and forced to live in this vile land.

As for sin in heaven- Satan did it. I think though if Heaven is real and God is real and Satan is real, how could you try to sin in heaven? You're in paradise, everyone is happy, if you sin you're punished by God, whom you've met and fear (if you made it to heaven). Using reason. Why would you sin against someone who gave you eternal life, a perfect one, and could destroy you in a milisecond.

Answer 5

Perhaps because we weren't meant to go to heaven in the first place, we were meant to live forever on a paradise Earth, with our full mental capabilities. Free will does not mean we cannot sin, only that we are free to make that choice, and accept the consequences for that choice. Science shows that we can live forever and use nearly 20 times our current level of intellect, but they don't why. It may have something to do with the Introns in our DNA. Had Adam notscrewed up, we may well have been traveling between the galaxies by now.

Answer 6

In the beginning we did just have a heaven known as the garden of Eden. We lived there until the wickedness of man caused us to disobey god and then we were banished. Now a person must spend time on earth and show that they are worthy of gods forgiveness and grace before entering the kingdom of god. Of course were we go when we die will not be our final resting place because eventually we will be resurrected and will once again live on earth under the rule of Christ. Whether people can sin in heaven is unknown, but it is known that no one will choose too because heaven is a perfect place.

Answer 7

While you're on earth you are given a free will whether to believe there is heaven or not.

Believing in things unseen is what you call faith. It make no sense to you because you don't have faith and you just let reasons dictate your beliefs. That is sad.

Heaven is a place where there is no sin and people who go there are sinners but because of their profession of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ they are declared righteous.

What a day of rejoicing when we get to heaven!

Answer 8

Well, I'm not sure if you can use only 100% reason when discussing matters of faith. However, if the question is sincere, I suppose it is not criticism.

As for your first question, according to Christianity, there once was a heaven on earth. However it was wrecked when Man fell into sin.

Also, if it's just reason, then it's not faith. Faith is just that......faith. It's the substance of what is not seen (unlike reason, which is seen).

Hope this makes sense.

Answer 9

People in Heaven don't sin, not because they don't have free will to begin with. They just get to finally release it totally to a divine being who knows better and be free.

Problem, to me, is that there is no such thing as free will in the first place. At least, not the way we think it to be. Shocking? Consider this.

We are constantly influenced by something. People make choices either influenced by their belief, desire or fear. Even those who say: "I am my own master" are probably following a desire that they can't seem to master or out of fear because they have no one to trust.

So in the end, do we really have free will?

Answer 10

The world was meant to be perfect. Satan tricked Adam and Eve into eating from the tree of life. Before they ate from the tree of life they were like small children in the fact that they could see no evil. Satan knew that once they could realize evil that they would be able to sin. Heaven is the only place where sins can not take place. there is no evil that can happen in the presence of the Lord.