Christians, a few questions?

Question

I asked a question earlier and someone accused me of being a heretic and another was for some reason under the assumption that all of christianity accepts the trinity idea. Here's the thread, if you wanna see http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Am6tBfcplFzZKw__5q0fXFrsy6IX?qid=20060705075254AAPcImD
So a few questions, out of curiosity...
If you believe in the trinity, do you know the history of the doctrine?
Do trinitarians study it from all viewpoints and make up their own mind, or only accept it because it's what they've always been taught?
Oh yeah lol... do you think I'm a heretic? Sorry, had to throw that one in there! hehe...
Seriously though, please only answer my questions, and I do not need an explaination of the trinity so don't go there.
And please be respectful!

Ok ummm.... did I not make it clear enough that I am not looking for an explaination of the trinity?? Come on, people! Just answer the darn questions, please?
THESE QUESTIONS HERE:
If you believe in the trinity, do you know the history of the doctrine?
Do trinitarians study it from all viewpoints and make up their own mind, or only accept it because it's what they've always been taught?

HEY RJ! Assume makes an *** out of U and ME, k?
I am not Muslim.
But ty for answering the questions at hand first :)

Ahhh Hammer... yes, you're very respectful :) TY!

Answer 1

I know enough to make up my own mind regardless of how much I've studied. The history of the doctrine is orthoginal to truth; human doctrine does not define the nature of God any more than the nature of God has given us a pure and peaceful religion that the whole world can agree upon. And you might be a heretic, but I can't tell from here -- though, again, it's not like doctrine can tell God how to be, so it's not like we should really go around burning folks at stakes with impunity regardless. (Really, the jews gave a heretic over to the romans for execution and look what they started!)

Answer 2

"If you believe in the trinity, do you know the history of the doctrine?"
Yes

"Do trinitarians study it from all viewpoints and make up their own mind, or only accept it because it's what they've always been taught?"

Can only speak for my experience, it is a doctrinal concept central to MOST Protestant religions and considered a fundamental tenet. A great many Protestants study dogmatic standards but do not feel a NEED to "make up their own mind" more than they have to about whether Jesus was divine or not.

This is obviously an issue for your particular denomination, one I don't share with you but respect nonetheless.

For the obvious Muslim, here's a link that explains the concept which you find so difficult to wrap your mind around. Since this was a question for CHRISTIANS I appreciate your participation even though I wish it could've been a but more enlightening than the same tired Islamic arguments made yet again by you, Perhaps you could concentrate on the whole "marrying a 9 year old" concept instead so that 4/5ths of the world could FINALLY understand THAT:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm

Answer 3

#1 I dont think you are a heretic for asking a question like that. We all wonder about things which are higher than our being.

#2 The trinity is God in 3 parts. To better understand look at an egg. It has a shell, the yolk, and the white which part is the egg?? Well, all 3 are. God is also considered in 3 parts. God the Father, Jesus his son, and the Holy Spirit.

#3 I believe in the trinity because of the Bible and the way it describes all 3.

Answer 4

Respect where respect is due Donna. You put a link to your previous question - did I not answer that question for you that time round?

If you study from the viewpoint that Jesus was a god or the archangel Michael then your answer will obviously be distorted.

The Gospel according to John starts (as you know) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

Then in John 1:14 John says - and the Word became flesh and lived among us. If the Word was God and the word becoming flesh was Jesus then Jesus was God - not a God. John also points to the equality of Jesus as God in 5:18.

God said to have no other god before him so is Jesus then a false god or a true god in the eyes of a JW? If Jesus is a true God then he is God as written by Isaiah and is part of the trinity as described throughout the Bible.

Isaiah (44:6) said that "besides me there is no God".

If this is true then is Jesus was a god, then he is in big trouble and we are wasting our time because he would be false. But he isn't false because God is with him and he is God - one with the Father.

The trinity can be concluded by the natural reading of the Bible throughout its pages and the Watchtower recognises this, and it is only through the writings of the Watchtower that they can despute the Trinity. It is therefore the Watchtower that is changing the version of the Bible. With this in mind, they are not following the Bible as wholely as they would like to be seen to, and by not acknowledging the trinity and the deity of Christ, they cannot be Christians.

You cannot pick individual pieces of the Bible to support an argument. You need the whole of the Bible and the whole of the Bible supports the existence of the trinity. If not, then you are saying Isaiah was wrong, yet he was considered one of the greatest prophets. And if Isaiah is wrong, then most of the Bible would follow suit and it would be a fable instead of the Great Book it is.

I have not explained the trinity as requested although I have used parts to support my argument through the history as recorded in the Bible. I accept the Trinity because this is what has always been taught and as is outlined in the bible and hence this is what I believe. I have therefore had no reason to go into the history of the doctrine as you asked since there are enough references throughout the Bible to satisfy my understanding and chapelite av did a good enough job. I am not in the habit of selecting only the bits of my religion that I like, discarding the rest and starting my own religion which would be akin to making up my own mind as suggested.

Regarding the heretic part of your question. Thats for you to answer - not for me to because it depends on where your standpoint is and how you represent yourself as there are many religions; Christian and non-Christian.

A little bit of light humour for you - did you know your one question here is three questions in one - a trinity in itself! Hope that there are not three of you Donna. Now that would put the cat amongst the pidgeons!

I hope I have been respectful Donna.
Peace be with you

Answer 5

Its not the same trinity as the Egyptians if that's what you're getting at. The word " trinity" isn't in the bible but its how we describe the Godhead ( Father,Son,Holy Spirit). Yet none are the same being, they are one with each other. Its a mystery as Christ explain it something we aren't able to comprehend because its out of this world. Jesus even claimed to be God when he said " I Am" quoting with Father God said. John1:1 describes Christ as the word that was with God and was God. Jesus said The father and I are one and the same.


Like I said it's not the Egyptian trinity. Like the rapture, its just a word we use to desrcibe it and it has the closer definition and meaning.

TRINITY:
A group consisting of three closely related members. Also called triunity.
Trinity Theology. In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God. Also called Trine.
Trinity Trinity Sunday.

a word not found in Scripture, but used to express the doctrine of the unity of
God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr.
trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas,
first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The propositions
involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but
one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2.
That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona,
suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That
Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and
the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

Answer 6

You and I both know that's how they are brought up and been brainwashed into believing. Trying to tell the Christians that the Trinity is tantamount to blastphemy is as largely going to result in namecalling or defensiveness on their part. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...Didn't the 10 Commandments say that there is but one God (if there is one--political correctness)? Jesus (Son) was a man/great prophet/teacher...just a man, nothing more or less. So far as the Holy Spirit goes that's a euphamism for having the good feeling that comes with being spiritual so it's almost acceptable...however, you don't worship a feeling. Those my agruements against the trinity. Many Christian Sects worship the blessed Virgin...more false Gods!

Answer 7

So, I did not know the meaning of the word HERETIC; so Webster's on-line Dictionary says:
1) a dissenter from established CHURCH dogma, especially : a baptized member of the RCC who disavows a revealed truth.
2) one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine.

I still do not know if you are a heretic. I think any Church who disavows original Church doctrine as revealed in the bible, is more guilty of being a heretic, than someone who leaves a Church doctrine to go back to the original Church teachings as revealed in the bible.

I do believe in the Father, Son and, Holy Spirit, but not the trinity doctrine.

Answer 8

Tertullian, one of the early church fathers, coined the term "Trinity." The word actually means "three-ness." Tertullian was an ardent supporter of orthodoxy in the church, and was one of the greatest defenders of the historic Christian faith.

A man named Arius was considered an arch-heretic of the church by denying that Jesus was God. This is one of the reasons the Council of Nicea was formed, to hash out what Christians believed about the nature of God. (Funny story: Nicolas, the bishop of Myra, Turkey, who is now known as St Nicholas/Santa Claus, slapped Arius across the face for denying that Christ was God. Nicolas was relieved of his position as bishop because of his rude behavior. He was later restored when he repented.)

The term "Trinity" is not found in the Scriptures, but the doctrine is clearly displayed. There are many times where Jesus said of Himself that He was God. He applied the name of God, "I AM," to Himself in several passages. Here's a few examples: Matthew 14:27, Mark 6:50, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8, John 4:26, John 6:20, John 8:24, 28, 58, and John 13:19. There are several others I have not listed. Besides this, Jesus said that He & the Father were one (John 10:30). This describes a unity, even though there are two. (Note, the I AM passages I referred to are from the Greek, as the English translations often mistranslate I AM for "It is I" or "I am He," to allow for readability.)

The Trinity has an underlying appearance in the Old Testament as well. In Genesis, we see during creation that God said, "Let us make man in our image." and also when man sinned, God said, "...man has become as one of us, to know good and evil..." Who was He speaking to? The other persons of the Trinity. We also see that the Spirit of God hovered over the waters in the beginning, and in John 1:1-3, it clearly states that Jesus (the Word) made everything.

Another angle to pursue is the various Scriptures that demonstrate that God's attributes are present in Jesus as well as the Holy Spirit. For example, the Father is eternal (Psalm 90:2), and so is the Son (John 1:2), and so is the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). Another shared attribute is their holiness. Only God is truly holy. The Father is holy (Revelation 15:4), so is the Son (Acts 3:14), and so is the Spirit (Acts 1:8).

An ancient diagram of the Trinity can be helpful in getting your hands around the doctrine, and can be found at the link in the SOURCE list.

The Trinitarian doctrine requires much more depth of discussion than can occur here. It is important to know that we only have to believe, not necessarily understand, the Trinitarian nature of God. It is a bedrock doctrine of the Christian church.

Now, as long as you are willing to be open to what was just said, and be willing to believe, and not necessarily understand, then I think you're going to be fine. Right now, though, your understanding of the Triune nature of God is inconsistent with the historic, orthodox Christian faith.

Answer 9

In my humble opinion, the trinity doctrine is just one more way human beings try to shrink God down to their own level. They have a problem understanding that, as created beings, they don't have a prayer of understanding their Creator thoroughly.
No, I don't think most Christians who accept the trinity have any idea of the history nor do I think they study, they just accept what they've been taught. Sadly, I think most people, Christians included, are a bit too lazy to think things through for themselves.

Answer 10

Yes, I know about the Trinity and its history.

The Trinity comes from ancient Judaism's wisdom theoology, which states that the Word or Wisdom of God was an extension of but seperate being from God, but that it was God in a certain way. Wisdom had all of the attributes of God. You can read about the history of Judaism's Wisdom theology and its relationship to the Trinity at http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/jesusclaimshub.html and, more specifically, at http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html .

And, on a sidenote, I once WAS a skeptic. But I did the research, looked into all of the world religions, and chose Christianity as the most logical and truthful one. I looked into Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I found their doctrine to be scripturally inadequate and lacking in logic or understanding.