How aware are you of what Lev. 18:22 and Lev 20:13 in the Bible (in GOD given Hebrew) REALLY means?

Question

It is common knowledge that the verses are against "any" and "all" homosexual contact.

People(?) "pride" themselves on throwing that verse (among others "miss"understood verses) when they want to "condemn" "any" and "all" homosexuality. Jerry Falwell types just love these prideful ones.

Do you believe this is what those verses mean?

If you do, are you "aware" of what some of the Biblical and Logical even "Moral" problems there would be in thinking it meant that?

Are you "aware" that there is "always" more to Biblical verses "THAN WHAT MEETS THE EYE"? [INTENTIONALLY done by GOD :--)] ---and that would include ALL verses traditionally used to condemn "any and all" homosexual behavior?

Are you indeed even AWARE?

This question is merely a call to those who are "saved" [for I do not hold out any hope for the Unsaved EVER "understanding what these verses mean to GOD as they do not possess HIS spirit which leads the servants of GOD into ALL TRUTH--so they are left with nothing more than "what the Bible says in letter" so far as they know it].

I ask that those of you who posted an answer go to:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htmIF YOU DARE! DO YOU DARE?

This is just research onto the language of the text and NOT political correctness or even “God loves everyone” deals. You see? we who know the TRUTH do not have to rely on a political or socially correct gospel.

For the lazy but full of condemnation:
LEV 18:22 "V’et zachar lo tishkav mishk’vey eeshah toeyvah hee."
“word for word” is translated: “"And with a male you shall not “lay lyings” of a woman. It detestable “thing”

1. You cannot rely on on-line concordances as they are also “translations” biased toward commerce and to appeal to the masses (most consumers are hetero)

2. You cannot rely on the MULTITUDE of English translations as they too are biased toward likely reader-consumer (again MOST would be Unsaved AND hetero).

3. Just find a “word for word” translation; next realize that translators “inserted” words to make the text easier to read as they thought. This is what you people are “quoting”. That is NOT reliable.

When GOD said “lay lyings”….What did HE mean. Only HE can tell us for sure via the HOLY GHOST within. For the rest, USE LOGIC and REASON:

1. Ask yourself, “What is Lyings? It’s a NOUN and NOT a verb (like to have intercourse would be)

2. Ask yourself, if this means no male-male intercourse as you think it does, why do you ADD women into the mix and say it prohibits “all” homosexuality. (Oh ye bias)

3. Ask yourself, if this means male-male intercourse, BOTH men would being worthy of DEATH.

Then what would Moses have done if a male RAPES another male. Or “gulp” a little boy (male) as goes on today…

...By YOUR error in understanding BOTH the rapist AND the male child WOULD BE SURELY PUT TO DEATH. (O Ye who would stone children!!!!)….NEVER thought of THAT DID YOU?

Does GOD (and JESUS perfect in keeping the LAW) see a child victimized by rape as committing an ABOMINATION or is that just YOU people? HMMMMMM I think it’s YOU PEOPLE :--)

REPENT of the sin of IGNORANCE
Study (not just read) the Bible but THE WHOLE BIBLE, Meditate on what you THINK you know and NEVER assume you have it correct until you hear from the HOLY GHOST within you. STOP WORSHIPING the Bible….WORSHIP GOD (Jesus) and let the Bible be HIS witness, for they testify of HIM and HE will bring you AWARENESS of TRUTH.

For the rest of us whom the LORD knows to be HIS own, I posed this question. For it is the GOSPEL (Good News) to HIS children who are "from their mothers womb" one of GOD's homo-amorous creation-for those who are aware (by HIS mercy) the difference between being "Gay" and following that perverse "culture" that is a contemporary perversion of homo-amory (LOVE between the same-genders) and being homo-amorous (loving) and want to live a life true to that gift from the LORD.

This is a call to you, undoing the religious damage that has been done to your minds by the blindness GOD gave to those who worship the witness [The Bible] and not the one it witnesses to: Christ's Enlightenment--to loose the captives, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? [Isa 58:6]. For that is the fast GOD requires of me.

For as my LORD said before me to their [the Bible faithful(?) of Jesus' day] "Search the "scriptures"; [as you have done here] for "in them" ye "think ye have eternal life": and they are they which testify [witness] of me [Jesus HIMSELF]. [John 5:39]. You see, many of you posting here put trust in the Biblical scriptures "first" without having the "born-again" EXPERIENCE "first" so that "understanding" of those scriptures will tell you how they "relate to Jesus" and NOT to Do's and Don'ts of LAW. The scripture needs to be “expounded” unto you but the first requirement is that you must become HIS disciple by HIS choosing YOU not the other way around. [Mark 4:34, Luke 24:27]…..I can expound more about ALL of this just EMAIL ME!!!!!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm

The next time you heterosexual males mount your females for sex (thinking that this is the "will" of GOD, yet you condemn your homosexual brothers, PONDER THIS:

The Bible condemns "heterosexuality" (I speak as homophobs do)....Why it's in the Bible:

1. GOD commands "marriage" BUT stops short of "commanding" a man to "know" OR copulate with his wife as adam did AFTER he became sinful AND GOD booted them OUT of paradise. [Gen 3:1]

2. Man NOW mates as ADAM did by mounting his female like the animals do (Note: GOD covered their nakedness with "gulp" ANIMAL SKINS "after" They BOTH rebelled.

3. GOD sent a FLOOD to destroy ALL FLESH when "men began to multiply" "heterosexually" [Gen
6:1]....Kinda reminds you of YOUR reasoning about Sodom and Ghomorah doesn't it? Only in Sodom and Ghomorah HE destoyed the cities, so the sin was going on only there [NOT like homosexuality]....Here, GOD destroyes the WORLD....so the sin was WORLD-WIDE [Exactly like heterosexuality] HMMMMMMM

4.[I Samuel 21:4-5]: "And the priest answered David, and said, [There is] no common bread under mine hand, but there is hallowed[HOLY] bread; if the young men have kept themselves at least from women [including wives] And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women [have been] kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels[Body] of the young men are HOLY, and [the bread is] in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel."

CONCLUSION: to be with a woman makes a man UNHOLY, so heterosexaulity is UNHOLY ....why It's CLEARLY Stated here.

5. [Psalms 51:5] "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and IN SIN did my mother CONCEIVE ["yacham"-to mate in (heterosexual) heat] me."

CONCLUSION: Conception (in this context meaning heterosexual intercourse) is IN SIN.....Right? It's there IN THE BIBLE....Look it up with the word "conceive" in your Strongs Concordance--It means in heat like the same as "gulp" ANIMALS do.

6: JESUS, did not allow the women to touch him (save by the feet) but doubting Thomas and the apostles were invited to "handle HIM".
7. And Jesus answering said unto them, The "children of this world" marry, and are "given in marriage": But "they which shall be accounted WORTHY to "obtain that world", AND the "resurrection from the dead", NEITHER MARRY, nor are GIVEN IN MARRIAGE....."LIKE THE ANGELS" [Luke 20:34-36]
CONCLUSION: No Touching, No heterosexual sex; likewise No Marriage, No heterosexual sex as you boast GOD intended.
8: [Revelation 14:4-5] These are they which were not defiled with women [includes WIVES]; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
CONCLUSION: One is "Defiled" when he has been with a woman. HETEROSEXUALLY which matches ALL the other verse conclusions I have offered [1-8] here.....

Where then is THY condemnation of thy homosexual neighbor?

The BIBLE PROPHETS, JESUS, THE APOSTLES Shall ALL MEASURE the SAME MEASURE that YE MEET to thy neighbor as I have done here....

.....in answering a fool according to his folly least he be wise in his own deceipt [Proverbs 26:5]

PONDER those ANTI-HETERO VERSES.....DO YOU DARE?

How shall Ye escape THIER judgement?

Plant these verses DEEP into your conscience the next time you want to have heterosexual sex with the one YOU love ...

...then YOU too can feel "the burden" that your homo-amorous and bi-amorous neighbor has to endure EVERYWHERE he goes thanks to False HeteroBiased Doctrines of tradition over the centuries.

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." [Deut 4:12]

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." [Deut 12:32]

WARNING: be careful how you ADD women into this LAW to support your bias homosexaul view.

Be careful how you ADD "All" forms of male-male sexual intercourse to these verses to support your prideful bias in favor of your OWN sexual acts.

And Be careful how you do "Expansion thru Translations" in the New Testament too! For it is written there : "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"
[Rev. 22:18].

Condemning the QUILT"LESS" is a SERIOUS MATTER!

GET IT RIGHT! :--)

That is, I meant Condemning the GUILT"LESS" is a SERIOUS MATTER! LOL .....I guess the condemning the "Quilt"less is too, since they may be the homeless! Well it "was" late last night :--)

It should read above:

The BIBLE PROPHETS, JESUS(Yeshuah), THE APOSTLES Shall ALL MEASURE the SAME MEASURE that YE MEET to thy neighbor [homo-amorous and bi-amorous] as I have done here.......in answering "a fool according to his folly least he be wise in his own CONCEIT" [Proverbs 26:5].......not conceipt, I stand self-corrected :--)

Sean's Answer Below:

Why is homosexuality wrong?

We have to let the Holy Spirit AND the Bible [1st. in original “GOD spoken” Hebrew; 2nd. Adding nothing presumptuously NOR taking anything away; 3rd. Checking all conclusions with Christ’s earthly ministry in the 4 Gospels as ALL scripture testifies (witnesses) of HIM] BEFORE we rest on a conclusion DARING to declare what “thus says the LORD”

Have you done ALL of this?

To Sean's Answer Below:

Why is homosexuality wrong?

We have to let the Holy Spirit AND the Bible [1st. in original “GOD spoken” Hebrew; 2nd. Adding nothing presumptuously NOR taking anything away; 3rd. Checking conclusions with Christ’s earthly ministry in the 4 Gospels as ALL scripture testifies (witnesses) of HIM] BEFORE we rest on a conclusion DARING to declare what “thus says the LORD”

Have you done ALL of this?

To ramall1to’s Answer Below:

I SEVERELY question you “access” to the original Hebrew by the way you are reacting. Just because YOU cannot see logic in same-sex relationships does not mean there IS no logic in them. Its called being “spiritually blind”…It’s no surprise. I often speak like my FATHER….so that hearing you will NOT hear and seeing YOU will NOT hear.

For Jesus Christ said: “For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” [Mathew 13:15; Acts 28:27]

The OTHER SIDE wants me to “just get to it” same thing they said too the LORD all those years ago and HE predicted would happen to me.

To Soga’s Answer Below:

GOD did NOT give the Bible to Moses or any of HIS chosen scribes in European English. I know this angers Euro-Egos as everything in the world MUST revolve around their tribesman and culture—WELL TOO BAD!. The Bible is written in Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek [ALL Ancient Languages] .YOU’RE quoting, as we all as English-speaking people do, IN ENGLISH. And BI-the-Way, “LIE WITH” is NOT a synonym for “intercourse” especially in THE HEBREW. The HEBREW word for “intercourse” IS NOT USED HERE [shakobeth is the word for “clearly” copulation]. It IS used in Lev 18:20 AND Lev 18:23, but the “translators” translated EACH verse with “lie with” since it was all relating to sex. They got carried away. “Lay Lying” is broader than “intercourse/copulation” and vaguer—deliberately chosen by GOD…….

Answer 1

It's pretty obvious what God means when He says that it is a detestable thing for a man to lie with another man as a man lies with a woman.

It is made even more so obvious when you look at 1 Corinthians 6:9.

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders..."

Made even more obvious in Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Translators often use the oldest and most reliable Hebrew manuscripts to write their Bibles. The only differences among the versions are in that of wording, but the collective meaning is not lost (slightly altered, maybe). For instance, in Genesis, the word "yom" is used for "day" in the 24 hours sense, so we can apply that to Genesis 1, which uses "yom" and thus the days of creation took six literal days.

Are you indeed even AWARE what those verses are talking about, or are you just blindly holding to the homosexual's argument that those verses don't really refer to such things, because you sure don't give any substantiation to back up your claims. Your case does not have a point to begin with, because you are just spouting hot water.

As Paul said in Romans 7:7-8, "What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead."

The law (Exodus, Lev., and Deut.) reveals sin for what it is.

May you find peace from Christ.

Answer 2

Well, it seems that,like so many other Christians, you only read the things that make you feel you are justified. It's true, Leviticus says that man shall not lie with man, essentially making gay sex a sin. but have you read the while book my friend?

Chapter 11
6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

In fact this chapter says you can't eat any bugs, creeping, crawling thing, no turtles, tortoises, snake, snail, camels, swans etc. To do so is sin. So, no more lobster dinners or snail at the French restaurant.

Chapter 12 says that for 30 days after a baby is born a woman is unclean and basically can't do anything. And that all male children must be circumsized. So, every woman that goes back to work a couple weeks after having a baby and all the millions of uncircumsized men are committing a sin.

Chapter 18 also says that you can't see any of your relatives naked, ever. That's a sin too.

Chapter 21 says that men can't cut their beards or shave their heads, really, look it up. As well as, if the daugther of a priest sleep with a man out of wedlock she is to be burned. And, people who are crippled or are dwarfs can't come to alter because they are blemished.

and Chapter 24 is the eye for an eye chapter that says Corporal Punishment is good. If you kill someone, you will be killed. Not all Christians believe that, well, if a murderer isn't killed it's a sin.

Chapter 25 is about the Sabbath. Devout Jews are good at this, but the rest of us. We have fun on Sunday.

There are a lot more examples but I think you get the point. Yes, according to the book of Leviticus man lying with man is a sin. But so is eating shellfish and bacon and not being circumsized. The book of Leviticus has long been thought of as a guidebook for the health of the people in this time. A lot of the laws are practicle or health based. There are several chapters about how to deal with lepers. That would have been important. So, unless you are following all the Laws in Leviticus you too are a sinner.
But as some other people have said. When Jesus started preaching he gave us a "New" Testament.
Be careful who you judge. Take care of your self and your loved ones and live and let live. Remember Jesus' greatest commandment was to Love. Simply Love each other.

Answer 3

The law of Moses is unambiguous. Twice in the book of Leviticus the prohibition against homosexuality (and in the same context, incest and bestiality) is clearly stated. The New English Bible’s rendering of Leviticus 18:22 is: “You shall not lie with a man as with a woman: that is an abomination.” In its paraphrase of this same verse, The Living Bible puts it: “Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin.”

What was the sanction then imposed for this offense? Again, The Living Bible’s paraphrase reads: “The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have brought it upon themselves.” (Leviticus 20:13) Elaborating upon the word “abomination” often used in a literal translation of this verse, The Amplified Bible gives as alternatives “—perverse, unnatural, abhorrent and detestable.”

From these two references it is apparent that homosexuality was fully understood and practiced close to 4,000 years ago. Also that Jehovah God took a firm stand against it as far as true worship is concerned. It never was a way of life approved by God.

It should be noted that homosexuality had been condemned by God before the law of Moses was even given. The account about Sodom and Gomorrah, referred to earlier, proves this fact; those cities were destroyed by God over 400 years before the law of Moses came into existence. Jesus was aware of that. Luke 17:28, 29, 32.

Answer 4

Those two scriptures are very plainly understood when taken in the context in which they were written. It doesn't take a nuclear physcist to unlock the words of those scriptures, because they are written in literal form and should be understood in literal form. However, the old Covenant was written for the admonition of those upon whom the 'end of the age has come'. There is now a New Covenant in which we can find mercy once we acknowledge sin for what it really is, and also realize that we have all sinned and are worthy of death. The mercy of this New Covenant is found in only one way: by believing in the One who laid down His life and had His innocent blood spilt as punishment for the sins of every one of us. So, the sins of homosexuality and the sins of lying or stealing, are all subject to the punishment of death (Romans 6:23) but we can find peace and relief from those sins by faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice. Read John 3:16. While it is true that some sins are more life encompassing than others, and therefore, more enslaving and difficult to overcome, why should we argue over which sin is greater when all sins lead to death? Instead, we should deal as ruthlessly with the sins in our own personal lives as God commanded the Israelites to deal with it in scriptures like these which you have drawn into question. And we should show compassion , and use every godly means to help those who are struggling with sins, so they can overcome them. God doesn't want anyone to perish...that's why HE sent Jesus to die in our place...and to give us the means to overcome the sins which so easily tear us down and enslave us.

Answer 5

Lets look at the different translations of this ONE verse:

ESV: (English Standard Version): "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is abomination."

KJV: (King James Version): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination".

LB: (Living Bible): "Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin"

Net Bible: "You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act."

NIV: (New International Version) "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

NLT: (New Living Translation): "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

RSV: (Revised Standard Version): "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination .

Unless you return to the original Aramaic, and stop relying on a translation of a translation of a translation, they this verse - and so many others - will never be clear, let alone understood.

Better still, ask yourself why you adhere to or even care about a religion that belongs to a small desert tribe in the middle east.

Answer 6

I am aware and I still believe the bible says what it means. I have access to the Hebrew language of the bible and it is very clear that homosexuality is totally wrong and is condemned whether you like it or not. Call it logical or not, where is it logical to want to have sex with another man if you are a man or a woman if you are a woman? I see no logic there whatever. So if there is some hidden meaning to your question, get to it. Otherwise, I see no point in what your arguement is.

Answer 7

While homosexuality is indeed wrong. The commandments of the Old Testament were thrown off when the age of grace came, after the death of Christ. However there is still much in the New Testament to follow. The Old Testament rules no longer apply in this day and age. Many of those rules repeated in the New Testament, and there are still rules in the Old Testament that would be good to follow.

Answer 8

We need to be aware the Hebrew in these passages is in no way as clear as it might appear to readers of the Bible in English.

There are numerous questions regarding what the actual words mean as well as what the intention of the prohibitions were. Wikipedia has a general article you might take a look at here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviticus_18
but it only skims over the issues.

We need to exercise caution in how we use Biblical texts that were written in a different time and place, especially ones that we do not have clearn understandings of.

Answer 9

Oh, I am indeed aware. READY or not, I'm coming in smokin'...

Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

lie NOTE SEXUAL
shakab, shaw-kab'; a primitive root; to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose) :- × at all, cast down, ([over-]) lay (self) (down), (make to) lie (down, down to sleep, still, with), lodge, ravish, take rest, sleep, stay.

abomination
tow`ebah, to-ay-baw'; or to`ebah, to-ay-baw'; feminine active participle of Hebrew 8581 (ta`ab); properly something disgusting (moral), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concrete) an idol :- abominable (custom, thing), abomination.

Let's look at this closer -
If a man has SEX with a man in a way he should with a woman, it is DISGUSTING and AN ABOMINATION to God. This denotes ALL homosexual preferences. God hates the act.

Read Romans 1:18-32, under the NEW COVENANT as well.
God commands all men everywhere to REPENT
ACTS 17:30

This is what those verses mean ALL HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION.

Answer 10

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
It means that God does not aprove of homosexualty.The word abomination means discusting.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

This scripture is crystal clear. NO homosesuality or multiple sex partners etc. NO EXceptions! Those acts cannot be justified ever. It means exactly what it says.