"ignorant" atheist seeks help in understanding conflicting stories...help needed?

Question

the story of moses, a jewish man who, with the direct interventon of god, led the jewish people away from slavery and to the promise land. now its the 1940's. hitler dicided to commit genocide. the Jewish peoples very existance was at stake, yet god was no where to be found...where was he? the conflicting story is people say god doesnt intervene due to free will, but he did in moses' story. so which is it? and why did god abandon the Jewish people during the holocuast?

please no 2 page speeches, and i wont read the bible again in my search for answers (i used to be catholic, converted to atheism).

Answer 1

You're not ignorant as far as I can tell. I think it's safe to say the story of Moses is fictitious. God wasn't there to help the Jewish people through Moses, god wasn't there when the Jewish people needed it in the 1940's, and god isn't here for anyone now.

Answer 2

Good question. The Holocaust story actually does parallel what Moses did. In Egypt, the Jews had been slaves for a very long time. They didn't see any hope of survival or freedom from their Egyptian masters. Then God brought safety in the form of Moses and Aaron... and the rest is history.

Now, the Holocaust. Different time, similar situation. The Jewish people are being oppressed by Hitler (and Stalin, too... he ordered a similar genocide in the USSR, killed 20mil+). God didn't bring the leader in the form of a person, BUT... help came nonetheless. The UN was formed after WWII, which eventually pushed for the creation of the nation of Israel. There the Jews could be free without worry of oppression from another race (although the Palestines got pretty upset when they got a bunch of land ganked from them).

So then... that leaves you with a choice. What do you believe? Was man and man alone behind the creation of modern-day Israel, or did God put his touch in there? You decide.

Answer 3

Ok, "ignorant" atheist... it's intervention, not interventon. It's decided, not dicided. It's the Jewish people's, not peoples. It's existence, not existance. It's the holocaust, not holocuast.

Aside from your intellectual (yet poorly written) sarcasm in asking for help understanding what you think you already know...

It wasn't the intervention of God, It was His suggestion, which Moses followed. The Jewish people's existence may still be at stake, with rumblings of those who claim that there will be a storm in a day which will end their existence, but they do still exist. Perhaps God has not abandoned them. Perhaps He has preserved them even to this day.

Answer 4

Moses was raised up after the jews suffered slavery for 40 years under the Egyptians. The jews suffered then because of their unfaithfulness, they chose foreign gods other than the true god. It was already prophesied and warned beforehand that they would suffer if they rejected god. And so it happened.

After the very god, Jesus came in the form of flesh, the jews again rejected their god, even crucifying him on the cross, the jews were handed over to their enemies, again and again since that time, especially in Hitler's time during the holocoast. This was also prophesied and warned beforehand.

up until now, the jews are stubborn and still rejects the son of god. reason why they are always in conflict with terrorists.

If God does this to his own household who rebels, what then do you think will happen to those outside who reject him?

Answer 5

God intervened in for the sake of redemption. God was keeping His promise to Eve, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that through their lineage Christ would come to redeem mankind from sin.

Up until the time of Christ, God spared them even though they were idolatrous because of His promise. Christ fulfilled the promise. There was no more chosen race.

It's not conflicting.

God doesn't deal with nations the way He used to before Christ came. Now we are a spiritual nation.

I believe that the Holocaust was horrible and tragic. It never should have happened. I believe that it grieved God as did 9/11 and personal tragedies that befall us. Sometimes He calms the storm and sometimes He calms the child, as the song goes. I don't know why He allows everything He allows. But I believe He suffers with us and is near to us when we reach for Him.

Answer 6

First the Hebrews were slaves for 400+ years. Secondly the Holocaust lasted very few years... They got their own sovereign country over that. He didn't abandon them. Many people died over the years in Egypt from brutality. When they learned that the prophecy of a deliverer was supposed to be coming true they kill all the infants of the Hebrews. Slavery is a horrible thing. Especially when they are treated so terribly

Answer 7

This is a great question...one that I have pondered on also. Why was it that the children of Israel were able to be delivered? Because a prophet of God had enough faith to lead them through the Red Sea. Is this to say the Jews were at fault becuase of one man's wicked desires? No. There is some validity to your observation that people do have free will. The bottom line is that God will intervine according to our faith (Acts 6:5). Have you heard that there is a prophet on the earth today who does lead his people just like Moses did? Something to think about...Hope that helps.

Answer 8

Wow - great question. I'm not sure I have a real good answer, but I'll try. As humans, it is very hard for us to try and rationalize God's actions and how He works throughout human history. Although this may sound really crazy, God works for the good in ALL things. Even something like the Holocaust. One thing God has that we don't is he has the ability to see all of human history now, since He is not contained by time. Even though disasters happen, God is able to see how it will all work in his providential plan.

Another thing we have to realize is that we can't even begin to think like God. Isaiah tells us that God's ways are higher than ours, and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. There is no way we can comprehend why things happen the way they do - especially bad things. For me (a Christian), I have faith that God knows what is absolutely best for me and my life.

Answer 9

It is a fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28-29. God was there all the time.

Also from a practical standpoint it drove the Jewish people out of Europe and back to their homeland, Israel, where they were supposed to by the end of the 1940's in order to fulfill more prophesy.

Answer 10

First in your question you stated that the jews were in slavery in Egypt and they were for a LONG time. In the story of moses they did reach the promised land guided by God in the form of a pilar of cloud by day and a pilar of fire by night. When they got to the promised land they sent 12 spys in to see it. 10 of them came back saying we'll die. There's giants in there and we don't stand a chance. But the 2 other guy came back and said yeah, there's giants but we have God on our side. We can take them. The crowd sided with the 10 cowards and God you're not allowed to go to the promised land because you didn't trust me and have faith. So He kept them in the desert for 40 YEARS! He provided Manna on a daily basis for them but left them in the desert to give time for them cowards to die. Then when the 40 years were over they took on the giants with God on their side and won. God uses hard times like that and the holocaust to bring His people back to Him. If you look back in history you'll see countless times where Isreal goes to battle against an army where Isreal's odd were not good. But God protected them and they won. God also said that Christians and Jews will be persecuted. The holocaust was a major form of persecution. If you get the chance read the book of Job in the bible. Here's a man that loves God with his whole life. And God blessed him emensely. Then Satan came to God and said let me have him. God told Satan that you can take away everything except his life. I'd encourage you to read it. It's a really cool story. Anyway, I hope this helps answer your question. If you have any doubts about God contridicting Himself just read the bible. You can also read history books about the jews and their victories.