in our time of need?
LUKE 12:12 "for the holy spirit will teach YOU in that very hour the things YOU ought to say.” NWT
and i know the "YOU" stands for plural in thier bible. but the fact is that the holy spirit WILL TEACH .....and how come you guys jump from holy spirit & active force and not just call it the one thing you guys branded it as?
2007-12-31 10:03:42 · 17 answers · asked by ~testube Jebus~ 4 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
This seems a remarkably weak argument for trinitarianism. Does not the bible teach (Heb 4:12)? Does not the inanimate creation teach (Rom 1:20)? Yes, yet these are not persons.
Imagine a person who holds up a cue card, or points to a verse in the bible. Was it the pointing finger than taught the reader what to say, or was it the One who controls the finger? The bible teaches that the holy spirit *IS* God's finger (not a separate person).
...(Luke 11:20) If it is by means of God's finger I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken you
...(Matthew 12:28) If it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
The Scriptures clearly teach that the Holy Spirit is NOT a person, but an impersonal thing or quality. Here are two obvious lines of reasoning...
1. People are NOT filled with other people; they are filled with impersonal QUALITIES:
(Luke 1:41) Elizabeth was filled with holy spirit
(Luke 2:40) filled with wisdom
(Luke 4:28) became filled with anger
(Luke 5:26) they became filled with fear
(Luke 6:11) they became filled with madness
(Acts 3:10) they became filled with astonishment
(Acts 5:17) Sadducees, rose and became filled with jealousy
(Acts 19:29) the city became filled with confusion
2. Logical connections
Here the impersonal thing Holy Spirit is connected with the impersonal thing "power":
(Acts 10:38) God anointed him with holy spirit and power
Here the impersonal thing Holy Spirit is connected with the impersonal thing "joy":
(Acts 13:52) the disciples continued to be filled with joy and holy spirit
The Scriptures apply anthroporphic qualities to many impersonal things. Trinitarians are required to believe that the Holy Spirit is a person, but literally *ALL* of their so-called "proofs" that the Holy Spirit is a person fail in the light of the entire bible. Here are lines of reasoning that expose the unscripturality of the arguments which pretend that the Holy Spirit is a person.
Comparing these two Scriptures (which describe the identical event) helps explain that the Holy Spirit can be thought of as "God's finger".
(Luke 11:20) If it is by means of God's finger I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU. . .
(Matthew 12:28) If it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.
Can a person's finger be "hurt" (or "grieved")? Obviously.
(Isaiah 63:10) They themselves rebelled and made his holy spirit [or "God's finger"] feel hurt
(Ephesians 4:30) Also, do not be grieving God's holy spirit [or "God's finger"]
The Scriptures often personify impersonal things or qualities:
(Luke 7:35) wisdom is proved righteous by all its children
(Romans 5:14) death ruled as king
(Romans 5:21) sin ruled as king
Referring to the "mind" or governing principles of an inanimate thing does not make it a person; neither does referring to a thing's "heart" or core make it a person:
(Matthew 12:40) the heart of the earth
(Exodus 15:8) the heart of the sea
(2 Samuel 18:14) the heart of the big tree
(Deuteronomy 4:11, footnote) the heart of the heavens
The Scriptures clarify that actual PERSONS spoke ON BEHALF OF the Holy Spirit:
(Acts 4:25) holy spirit said by the mouth of our forefather David...
(Acts 28:25) The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet
(Matthew 10:20) it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you
Other nonpersons 'testify' or 'bear witness':
(1 John 5:7,8) there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood
Arguments pretending that a person can "fill" another person are based on pagan witchcraft and Babylonish mysticism. The Scriptures consistently show that only nonpersonal qualities can "fill" a person. Jehovah's Witnesses are unlikely to trade their Scriptural true worship for witchcraft and Trinitarian false worship; apostasy such as trinitarianism was foretold in the bible.
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3) We request of you not to be quickly shaken from your reason... the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed
(2 Peter 2:1) there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects
Finally, if trinitarians are true Christians, why do they ignore Christ's command that each Christian must preach?
(2 Timothy 4:3-5) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories. You, though, keep your senses in all things, suffer evil, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.
(Matthew 28:19,20) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded
Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/article_07.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/article_08.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/ti/
http://watchtower.org/e/20020515/
http://watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_02.htm
2008-01-01 00:21:32 · answer #1 · answered by achtung_heiss 7 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Witnesses say that since the HS can be "poured out" like liquid, it must not be a person or an intelligent being. Galatians 3:27 says that, "all of you who were baptized into Christ have been clothed with Christ." Strange, that! How can you put Jesus on your body like a T-shirt? Does that verse mean that Jesus is not a person? I think these descriptions are figurative ... don't you? The Holy Spirit has been described as teaching people. Jesus said that the "Comforter" would arrive, but only after he was gone. Invisible things are not well understood by anyone. Describing the HS as electricity is an easy way out, and they also use this analogy when talking about a person's "spirit" -- yet another topic they don't like dealing with. Electricity does things for us, but you can't see it. It confuses the issue in a satisfactory way, so they keep using it.
2016-05-28 07:15:48 · answer #2 · answered by ? 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
There is not a single verse in the bible that says the Holy Spirit is not a person. The Holy Spirit can teach, be greived and speaks. Something a force can't do, but a person can.
The Jw teaching about the Holy Spirit is just anther example where the leaders of the society have it wrong.
2008-01-04 00:23:34 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
Good question. I'd also add Jn. 14:26.
Electricity will only teach you once most of the time....you won't be around for the second.
Jehovah's Witnesses teach that the Holy Spirit is an active force like radar. They deny that He is alive, that He is a person. This is, of course, because they deny the Trinity. Yet, if the Holy Spirit is simply a force then...
Why is He called God (Acts 5:3-5)?
How is it that He can teach (John 14:26)?
How can He be blasphemed (Matt. 12:31,32)?
How can be the one who comforts (Acts 9:31)?
How is it possible for Him to speak (Acts 28:25)?
How then can He be resisted (Acts 7:51)?
How can He be grieved (Eph. 4:30)?
How can He help us in our weaknesses (Rom. 8:26)?
If the Holy Spirit is a force, then how is it possible that the above mentioned phenomena are attributed to Him? A force doesn't speak, teach, comfort, etc.
Nor can you blaspheme against a force.
2007-12-31 13:48:51 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 3⤋
Good grief!
It's likened to electricity to help donuts like you understand that it isnt a person.
It is however, very much a active force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish his purposes and it is at all times under his control.
2007-12-31 11:34:42 · answer #5 · answered by lillie 6 · 4⤊ 1⤋
The Holy Spirit is the continuator of the redemptive process
in the world: His work goes on perpetually accomplishing and
fulfilling the will of God. This He does through the use of truth,
the Word of God, revealed and recorded by Him, whether in
the processes of conversion or of spiritual development.
2007-12-31 10:17:59 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Because it';s RELIGION, it doesn't have to make sense, if you're dumb enough you just BELIEVE what you're told and don't bother with pesky little things like reality and logic.
2007-12-31 10:14:54 · answer #7 · answered by Brent Y 6 · 0⤊ 3⤋
Various sources acknowledge that the Bible does not support the idea that the holy spirit is the third person of a Trinity. For example:
The Catholic Encyclopedia: "Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find any clear indication of a Third Person."
Catholic theologian Fortman: "The Jews never regarded the spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view. . . . The Holy Spirit is usually presented in the Synoptics [Gospels] and in Acts as a divine force or power."
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The O[ld] T[estament] clearly does not envisage God's spirit as a person . . . God's spirit is simply God's power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly." It also says: "The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God."—Italics ours.
A Catholic Dictionary: "On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power."
Hence, neither the Jews nor the early Christians viewed the holy spirit as part of a Trinity. That teaching came centuries later. As A Catholic Dictionary notes: "The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362 . . . and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381"—some three and a half centuries after holy spirit filled the disciples at Pentecost!
No, the holy spirit is not a person and it is not part of a Trinity. The holy spirit is God's active force that he uses to accomplish his will. It is not equal to God but is always at his disposition and subordinate to him.
2007-12-31 10:13:17 · answer #8 · answered by LineDancer 7 · 4⤊ 4⤋
The holy spirit coming on someone reminds them of what they had studied before so as to answer according to Scripture. God sends the spirit.
So it is God teaching.
2007-12-31 10:12:08 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 0⤋
Yes, the Holy Spirit is described as a person in sacred scripture because the Holy Spirit is a person.
2007-12-31 10:11:27 · answer #10 · answered by Daniel W 2 · 3⤊ 4⤋