What's the real truth about sharps and flats on White Keys?

Question

How can I explain the usage of E#, B#, Cb, and Fb? I think that they actually do exist (yes they are the same as F, C, B and E naturals) but my parents say that those note names such as E# are necessary in some instances, but not used all the time. In some ways I think that they are right by saying that they are just necessary at certain times like with keys with 6+ sharps or flats and also with such chords that require them, like the A augmented chord (A-C#-E#). Are they right or do you think they don't exist?

Answer 1

They are necessary for the simple reason that it is easier to scan two different notes, than it is to scan the same note with a bunch of added accidentals. If you are going up the scale and see a D, E# and F# in the key of D, it is easier to read than a D, F natural, and then F sharp. The same thing is true going down the scale. Enharmonic notes are used to make scanning music easier. They are also absolutely necessary when you are dealing with more than six sharps or flats, since the only way you can keep track of all of the notes is by using enharmonic tones. If you already have an F sharp in the key signature, and you need an E sharp, you sure aren't going to call it F natural. Talk about a world of confusion there. You are absolutely right and of course your parents still need to be respected, so don't go jumping up and down on their desk. Just keep that wisdom until the day you need to apply it, and be glad that you paid attention when it mattered most!

Answer 2

E# and F are not the same. Yes, they sound the same - they are not in reality the same.

Given a scale of CDEFGABC we have an all natural pattern. We don't write CDEE#GABC because (in this case) the scale step is not an E but an F. The IV chord is not E# A C but is F A C -- though they will sound the same.

How about a Cb major triad then? Cb Eb Gb -- easy enough, stacked thirds. Why not B Eb Gb? Because Cb to Eb is a major third but B to Eb (which sounds the same) is not a major third, it's a diminished 4th.

Think of just the first two steps of the Cb major scale - Cb to Db. We could also write a B to C# and get the same sound. Both are a major second and that's how we start a major scale. B to Db sounds the same too but that's not a major 2nd - it's a diminished 3rd (a concept that would drive most students nuts).

So, we have an E#, B#, Cb, and Fb so that we can express notation in standard intervals as they are demanded by the rules of music theory.

Consider this common example of standardized intervals: C dim7 as C Eb Gb Bbb or C Eb Gb A -- they sound the same but only one is correctly notated based on interval theory.

Further, since the symbol 'b' means nothing more than lowered by a half step and '#' nothing more than raised by a half step - it is simple logic that we can apply those instructions (symbols) to any note. There is then an E, Eb, and E# just as there is an A, Ab and A#.

That we can discuss them and musicians know what to do with them is evidence that they do in fact exist. Very few professional musicians would not know what to do when faced with a Cb or E# -- for this reason alone, they exist.

To say that they don't exist is akin to claiming that the letter 'H' in the word 'honor' doesn't exist - since it is silent. Or, that the letter C (as used in 'cat') doesn't exist because it sounds the same as the letter K (as used in 'Kat').

E#, F, and Gbb sound the same -- and they are all there. I can play them on the piano.

Answer 3

I'm not sure this is the answer you're looking for, but I'll give it a shot.

Yeah, I'd say that the naming is needed, at least within certain context to maintain 'fluidity' of the note names. Imagine trying to decide which of the duplicated notes to remove, while still maintaining the fluid note naming. How would you explain to someone "Well in certain cases, we just skip the letter"? That would likely confuse someone at some point.

So back up a step. What does a major scale have, regardless of whether it has sharps or flats? Tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone, semitone. Ignore the names for the moment. Realize that at least that part of the music is consistent.

Now add back the labels. If you wanted to, I'm sure you could come up with some pretty crazy labeling. Instead of C, D, E, you could say B#, C##, D##. Yeah, ugly, but you get the idea. They're just labels.

So the truth is that music is a set of relationships between sounds. Mathematical relationships. Relationships using physics. At least, that's the basic concept of sound, or complex sound. You should already know that real music has soul. :-) The labels are just learning crutches, just like learning names for martial arts moves. Once you've mastered the moves, you don't need the names other than to explain the moves to someone using a common agreed-upon naming scheme. Thought becomes action.

Answer 4

This can often indicate atonality from composers, especially those you mention in your question. No use of a key signature doesn't restrict a composer to that home key and gives them more freedom to explore tonality(ies) and progressions. It also can prove to be hell for some music theorists because of the ambiguity (see: Tristan Chord). Secondly, if they DO pick a home key for their composition, but decide to modulate until the last few measures of the piece, it would prove to be a visual assault of accidentals upon the performer. In cases such as those, it's easier to not indicate a key. A composer decides on accidentals because of our standard music theory practices regarding progressions and tonality--sometimes the use of a sharp or flat, even if the note is the same (ex: E-flat/D-sharp) can alter the meaning of a chord and the music's progression altogether. As our world of music has progressed since the 20th century, composers are daring to explore outside of our western music theory boundaries and breaking "the rules." This is the best explanation I can offer you without diving into mindless jargon. I hope that helps. EDIT: In response to your edit... Deciding to use a C-sharp or D-flat relates to the key signature and the chords/progressions desired. Let's say you want to play in the key of G-flat major. You decide to modulate to the dominant of the key ten measures later....if you use a C-sharp in place of D-flat as the root, while it sounds dominant, is not actually V of G-flat major when analyzed.

Answer 5

They definitely exist, because of the ways scales are constructed. There's a pattern to the key signatures (which show what sharps or flats will be played) for example:
G major: F#
D major: F# C#
A major: F# C# A#
E major: F# C# G# D#
B major: F# C# G# D# A#
F# major: F# C# G# D# A# E#
C# major: F# C# G# D# A# E# B#

Theory lessons my seem boring, but they give you an understanding which helps, not only when you are playing an instrument or singing, but even more so when you start to create your own music. As well as helping you to structure your music, you'll find it easier for you to write it down so others can play it as well.

I recommend you ask your teacher to start you on a course of graded theory lessons because this will add a real richness to your musical experience.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Answer 6

not all instruments use pre-set string lengths in order to determine a note! On a piano, we accept F-flat and e natural as beeing close enough to the same, but technically, they should not be the same wave length. Those who play stringed instruments and those who sing should pay particular attentionto those minor differences, as it affects the overtone series.

The reason they are marked specifically even in piano music is because each note has a function within the key that the piece is in. When raising or lowering a note by accidental, you are using a secondary key, you could even call it an extremely short modulation within the form of the piece. Accidentals are neccesary in indicating that note's function, as a harmonic ornon-harmonic tone, within the chord, and even it's proper emphasis within the melody.

Answer 7

It only happens in odd key signature and then it happens as ## or bb

In the key of Bb the term Bbb would indicate an A note.

In the key of D F## would be a G note

This is very rare.

And this would make the chords Sus4th, technically.

Answer 8

They are necessary because those notes are only the same on the piano. On most other instruments, there is a difference of a few cents (an interval much smaller than a half-step) between, say, E and Fb.

It's the difference between equal and just temperament. It's complicated.

In piano music, though, because equal temperament is used... no, it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot.

Answer 9

Of course they exist, depending upon the key. A sharp or flat does not HAVE to be on a black key. It just has to be half a step up (sharps) or down(flats). And may I say, I HATE 6 sharps! Especially on the piano. Violin is easier. You just move you hand a little more up or down the fingerboard with the occasional string crossing.

Answer 10

In music theory...the notes are changed to suit the key...but I have always played Piano/Bass and guitar by ear...and to me?...B# is always a C...however!...I have played with a Jazz band and their keyboard player told me that F6 becomes Dm in certain keys and there are only 3 dimished chords?...that cover all the keys!...bloody confusing learning music...but hang on there...especially if you want to become a session player...and sight read or write articles in the music magazines...