Morality??

Question

To the non-christian people out there, especially athiests, how do you have a sense of right and wrong without Christ or some sort of belief system?
Where does morality come from if not from God?

No, I do not act how I do out of fear of God punishing me, I act out of what I know God wants from me and from His Word, I know what is right and wrong. Yes I did have parents that tought me this also, but I meant for people who need more than just the parents saying "because I said so" to back them up.

I mean morals like saying lying is wrong, treat others like you'd be treated etc... not going on murderous rampages or anything like that.

Ok, enough allready. Yes, I see that people get their morals from parents, school etc... but why would a person take it to heart if it is just their teacher or parent saying something is right or wrong.

Answer 1

Society....

Now it's illegal and immoral to own slaves even though the Bible condones it, but 100 years ago it was legal and acceptable. If you get your morals from the Bible then you should still think that slavery is a moral and just way of labor.

Answer 2

Morality is a tricky son of a gun. Its proved to be the most difficult philosophical question to answer. Even if God sets the standard so too speak I submit that even this ideal of morality has challenges.

I.E. If what is right and wrong is right and wrong only because God says so or if he sets moralities standard - then "IF" God said tortuing babies for fun is right would it be ok. I`m inclined to think no. Of course some theists may say well God would never say that, but oopsie now were suggesting that the standard of what is right and wrong is beyond everyones say-so even Gods. Moreover if whats right and wrong is right and right because of Gods set standard then there is nothing inherently evil in killing someone. It`s only wrong because God says so. If you think that God says its wrong because well it just is then you`re suggesting that moralities standard is independent of God. So which is it?

Morality is a magicians optical illusion at a psychedelic rave in the brain of someone on acid. Whether you`re an ethical realitivist, realist, conventialist, utlitarian, existentialists, etc.. thought experiments and rationally justified rebuttals show that each theory is nowhere close to being sound.

I think the standard of morality is set by government and society. But an easy rebuttal to this conventialist theory is if one society thinks its right to conquer and occupy other nations and the conquered nations thinks its wrong - then which society is right or wrong? I happen to be an ethical realists, I think whats right and wrong is independent of everyones say-so even God (whom I dont believe in). But then the question becomes what are these ethical facts and what makes it so? I`ll end with the best (hardly complete) theory on ethics I`ve heard from an atheist. I`ll also rebutt his theory on morality.

Dan (atheist) Barker - Morality is not a thing. Its just a concept made up by man to define certain modes of behavior. What is right and wrong is realitive to human beings. There can be no Absolute comic morality sense morality is a concept of the mind. How can we have an objective/subjective thing? Morality is really simple. What is wrong are modes of behavior that cause unecessary harm. If a person acts in a way to reduce the suffering of others then that person is in principle an ethical person. Causing unecessary harm is wrong not because of some cosmic absolute law. Its wrong because biological organims recoil from physical pain. Morality is a naturalistic phenomena.

Rebuttal to best atheist moral theory -

What are we too say of people that cause suffering without harming someone? Is a theif neutral on right and wrong since he did not cause or lessen the physical pain of others? Is the pshycological abuse of childern and wives neither good or bad since the Dad/husband did not physically harm his victims? Even though biological organisms recoil from pain it does not follow that we ought not to cause pain. Called the is/ought gap.

Ethical questions are in principle harder to answer than scientfic ones. New evidence will settle debates and brings concensus in sceince. No amount of evidence changes how people feel about whats right and wrong.

Answer 3

You do realize that most of the world's morality (around 4 billion peoples worth) does not come from your belief system? Morality is basically social rules that allow it to function, your belief adds on an eternal reward and punishment, but in most moral systems this is not a factor.

If you are really interested in what morality is all about, I'd start studying the philosophy discipline called Ethics. Ethics is the study of various moral systems and why actions are right or wrong and is generally introduced in college.

Answer 4

Here's what the late CS Lewis (A famous Christian apologist) said about it:

"The first thing to get clear about Christian morality between man and man is that in this department Christ did not come to teach any brand new morality. The Golden Rule of the New Testament (Do as you would be done by) is a summing up of what everyone, at bottom, had always known to be right." [C.S. Lewis]

The drafter of our Constitution on the subject:

"...If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that is pleasing to him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God." [Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814]

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I'm sure someone else has already hit on this. but do you honestly need to be threatened or bribed in order to be a good person? If so, by all means persist in your delusion.

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"We are continually told that the Bible is the very foundation of modesty and morality; while many of its pages are so immodest and immoral that a minister, for reading them in the pulpit, would be instantly denounced as an unclean wretch. Every woman would leave the church, and if the men stayed, it would be for the purpose of chastising the minister." [Robert G. Ingersoll, "Some Mistakes of Moses", 1879]

"The Bible is not inspired in its morality, for the reason that slavery is not moral, that polygamy is not good, that wars of extermination are not merciful, and that nothing can be more immoral than to punish the innocent on account of the sins of the guilty." [Robert G. Ingersoll]

Answer 5

Well, have a baby and put him in a room and teach him nothing about God or right and wrong and see what happens when you let him out of the room.
We are taught about God and right and wrong.
I would hope the experiment would prove there is an innate goodness inside. There are many variables possible, including past lives and what you bring here to this life for lessons. I knew a neighbor who was a devout Atheist and his son was a good boy! He became interested in Christianity until I took him to a Catholic church and he was denied communion and wanted to know why. At the time, I had no clue. Church doctrine!
Rev. TomCat

Answer 6

Your bucket is pretty shallow isn't it...

How do all of us lesser non Christians even mange the truly amazing ability of having any sense of right and wrong and good morals without a magical Jesus Christ or god to get it from?

Easy. We're raised with the morals, values, and standards of our family, community, and society. Going against such things would make one a outcast, and few humans would want to be one.


"I mean morals like saying lying is wrong, treat others like you'd be treated etc..."

Heard all that from my parents, teachers, tv, etc., while growing up...is it so hard to imagine it might come from elsewhere?


"but why would a person take it to heart if it is just their teacher or parent saying something is right or wrong."

Are ya tryin' to be difficult...

So because there isn't a great and powerful Oz commanding it to me I wouldn't learn it? Um, kids learn stuff from their elders and by their example. It's what kids do. I didn't need to have a book threatening me with hell if I didn't follow it...it's just the way it is, you behave this certain way, this is what our society expects. No big deal.

Tell me, without that book...how did I learn about modesty and to wear clothing?

Answer 7

People know right from wrong and live accordingly. Parents teach and guide their children and don't require Santa (naughty list) or God (hell) to get the job done. The laws, rules, and mores of society also influence people.

*sigh* Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, and so on really lived their Christan taught morality.

Answer 8

Mere allegiance to a religion is not going to ensure that you are a moralist. Can you believe that Hitler was devoted Christian and he justified his war and violence against the Jews, as having the sanction from Jews, who suffered in the hands of the Jews. You always adopt convenient theories to justify you immorality, whether you are christian or a non-christian or an atheist. I am an believer, though not a christian, myself. But, I have come across many atheists who had some value system ingrained in them and some believers who have been unscrupulous and unethical.

Answer 9

All morality codes derive from evolution, whiich applies to societies as well as to species: a society which adheres to a sound moral code will survive preferably to one that does not. (Witness the demise of the Shakers, the Jonestown cult, and the Soviet Union.) Hence, the proper test for morality is: is it reasonably to be expected that the proposed action will be beneificial to society, or detrimental, or of no significance either way? Since murder and robbery are detrimental to most any society, these are pretty much universally condemned as immoral. Religious claims to be determiners or arbiters of morality are without foundation.

Answer 10

From society, and from my interpretation of what's right and wrong.

"but why would a person take it to heart if it is just their teacher or parent saying something is right or wrong."

This coming from someone who believes the words of a 2000-yr old book. You, of all people, should understand why.

You know, it's hilarious when the superstitious question the integrity of the rational.

Answer 11

Ethics and morals come from the evolution of society.
Society builds rules to insure the survival of the species.

The rules of the bible are mostly the same ones told by Confucius, 500 years earlier. And mostly the same as the Code of Hammurabi, 2000 years earlier.

If we were born with a sense of right versus wrong why should we bother to teach our children behavior lessons?

Look at the number of rules and laws we have today that are not part of any religious text. Society decided they should be implemented.

Moreover, where's the morals of the believer? If you behave yourself only because of fear of damnation and encouragement of salvation, your morals are fake.
I behave properly because it's the right thing to do for my fellow human.

Additional: I take it to heart because it makes me feel good. Instead of asking my invisible friend for forgiveness, I go straight to the one I truly need it from, whom I may have wronged. I take it to heart because it the best thing I can do for my fellow human.

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." --Susan Brownell Anthony, U.S. suffragist