Atheists: How do you argue/reconcile this declaration with your belief system?
What do you understand this statement to mean?
2007-12-28 03:53:28 · 36 answers · asked by God Still Speaks Through His Word! 4 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
When I was a Christian, I knew this statement to mean that Jesus was affirming His divinity.
Jesus, being the mediator, the sacrificial lamb was the scapegoat for mankind.
Mankind can never be perfect as God in heaven is perfect, so we needed a perfect sacrifice to make atonement for our sins.
So we could be "acceptable" to God. Since Jesus was sinless and the second part of the triune God, He was made the perfect sacrifice for all men who would only believe on Him.
"Believe" has many interpretations in Christendom. Some say that belief means to have an abiding knowledge of Christ and that this is given through inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God as it has passed down to us through the centuries.
If one does not know Christ, that means that he is desiring sin, instead, and has a rebellious heart.
This person cannot "come to the Father" without first humbling himself, realizing that he is a sinner and repenting of his sins and turning from them and embracing Jesus Christ as Lord and personal savior.
Jesus, being the 'fullness of the Godhead, bodily' is THE ONLY WAY to the true God of Heaven and Earth.
Some Christians believe that this is literal, and as such believe that one must have a literal understanding of the Jesus accounted for in the scriptures, especially the Gospels.
Other Christians believe that one may have a heart inclined towards Christ-likeness and that this will ultimately redound to the individual's salvation, as Jesus "knows the hearts of all men," and will manifest Himself to this individual in unspecified, yet definitive ways.
I believe that this scripture was included in the Canon of Scripture (among many) to interject a "funnel" for all beliefs. That all the various factions of Christianity at that time would be compelled to, as it were, get on the same sheet of music.
I do not believe any of the above, yet I once did, with all my heart and soul.
But alas, I somehow learned to un-condition my brain from the "washing" of the religious machine called Christian Faith.
IT had nothing to do with the desires for sin because I fought these revelations for years, until I had no choice but to understand faith for what it truly is: delusion of the first order.
No one can rationally believe that Jesus is the Son of God. There is just no way that this can be true, in the face of all the historic, scientific and psychological evidence to the contrary.
2007-12-28 16:05:05 · answer #1 · answered by John Galt 2 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Why should they have to argue/reconcile it? If they don't believe in your book and your God, then that's that. I'm sure they comprehend the sentence to mean what it says (on a very basic level). But they don't believe it or take it as "truth" like you do. Therefore your question is nonsensical.
I'm not Christian, but I'm not an Atheist either. I look at that passage and say - it's meaningless because I don't believe in your perception of deity and I believe the bible to be written by men. What do you want me to do? Argue with you on some level you would understand? Because I'm pretty sure we'd both have to believe in your perception of deity and both believe the bible was the word of God in order to have a functional argument on a bible passage.
2007-12-28 04:01:32 · answer #2 · answered by swordarkeereon 6 · 2⤊ 1⤋
It really doesn't have anything to do with anything that I believe. I lack belief in "the Father" and I don't think Jesus was a messiah or some sort of demi-god. So... I don't have to reconcile it with what I believe any more than I have to reconcile something attributed to Mithras or Horus.
I understand that Christians believe that this means that the only "true" way to their god and therefore "salvation" is through belief in Jesus.
2007-12-28 03:58:41 · answer #3 · answered by N 6 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Since that "declaration" only appears in the Christian Bible, why should it have any affect on an atheist's non-belief? (Note that I said "non-belief," not "belief system.")
The Quran states that Allah (aka the God of Abraham) is the only way to salvation. The Hindu Sutras say that good karma is the way. Buddhism says that inner peace and enlightenment is the way.
Why should any of these make any difference to someone who doesn't believe in them?
Your first mistake was in assuming that atheists believe that the Bible is entirely factual. Your second was in assuming that they haven't heard this argument before.
I'm not even an atheist, and I can see how cracked your question is. Please, stop trying to force your religion. It's good that you believe what you do, but stop using it as an excuse to make yourself feel superior to others.
2007-12-28 04:25:30 · answer #4 · answered by Johnny Sane 3 · 1⤊ 1⤋
And I am the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz!
A book is just a book - some stories have some good "life lessons" written into them. (At least the lessons in the Wizard of Oz are easier to interpret and understand than some of those in the Bible.)
Not an Atheist, sorry, but don't believe that the Bible is "the word of God" and absolute proof that He exists either.
2007-12-28 04:12:25 · answer #5 · answered by Crystal clear 7 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Christians identify Messiah with Jesus and define him as God incarnated as a man, and believe he died for the sins of humanity as a blood sacrifice. This means that one has to accept the idea that one person's death can atone for another person's sins. However, this is opposed to what the Bible says in Deuteronomy 24:26, "Every man shall be put to death for his own sin," which is also expressed in Exodus 32:30-35, and Ezekiel 18. The Christian idea of the messiah also assumes that God wants, and will accept, a human sacrifice. After all, it was either Jesus-the-god who died on the cross, or Jesus-the-human. Jews believe that God cannot die, and so all that Christians are left with in the death of Jesus on the cross, is a human sacrifice. However, in Deuteronomy 12:30-31, God calls human sacrifice an abomination, and something He hates: "for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods." All human beings are sons or daughters, and any sacrifice to God of any human being would be something that God would hate. The Christian idea of the messiah consists of ideas that are UnBiblical. 1. The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-6), which is contradicted by Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37.
2. The Messiah re-establishes the Davidic dynasty through the messiah's own children (Daniel 7:13-14). But Jesus had no children.
3. The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, between all peoples, and between all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above.)
4. The Messiah brings about the universal world-wide conversion of all peoples to Judaism, or at least to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
5. The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
6. The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of God is God (Isaiah 11:9). But the world remains steeped in idolatry.
7. The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9). It isn't.
8. The Messiah gathers to Israel, all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24). Many of the ten lost tribes remain lost.
9. The Messiah rebuilds The Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28). It hasn't been rebuilt.
10. There will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30). People starve to death every day.
11. After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8). People die every day.
12. Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6);
13. The nations of the earth will help the Jews, materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12;
14. The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23);
15. All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12);
16. The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15)
17. Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12);
18. Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13);
19. The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been wrong, that the Jews have been right, and that the sins of the Gentile nations, their persecutions and the murders they committed, have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53)
2007-12-28 04:03:29 · answer #6 · answered by ©smegma 1 · 1⤊ 4⤋
Ok so Atheists don't believe in the Bible.
Maybe I am a little ignorant here, but it seems that there are better ways of teaching the Gospel to Atheists, then throwing bible verses at them. Maybe living a Christ-like life and being an example is a better way to teach his gospel. That is just me though.
2007-12-28 04:13:59 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
Since atheists don't believe in God, they don't believe that the Bible is anything more than a book of antiquated wisdom and guidelines.
Many atheists seem to feel that all religion is a ruse or a trick, so the Bible, to their point of view, is a compilation of propaganda used to advance the religious ruse.
It would be kinda like if you didn't believe in the Koran, and a Muslim asked you why you didn't follow Mohamed since the Koran said to.
2007-12-28 04:01:26 · answer #8 · answered by Acorn 7 · 5⤊ 1⤋
Wow. How could anyone read this and not drop everything and change their whole life to buy into it. Isn't it amazing that some people can read this and not just immediately realize that it is somehow truer than all of the other religious texts in the world.
2007-12-28 04:18:23 · answer #9 · answered by Fred 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
I feel no need to reconcile any statement in the bible with anything I believe.
It means virtually nothing taken out of context of the supernatural which does not exist.
2007-12-28 04:05:44 · answer #10 · answered by That's Why 3 · 2⤊ 2⤋