How many atheists agree with Dawkins' conclusion that ...?

Question

it is improbable ANYONE can completely -- 100% -- disbelieve there is a God? Dawkins writes this conclusion is unscientific because there is no proof one way or the other of God's existance. Frankly, I was surprised to read that he felt this way and wondered how many atheists here agree with his conclusion.

Yes, I'm reading 'The God Delusion.'

And no, my "fundie card" won't be revoked, as an atheist friend of mine postulated.

Za, I agree with you regarding Dawkins' lack of theological knowledge. If he had attempted to gain this knowledge before proceeding to criticize theistic beliefs, I would have respected his position more. It's really too bad his editor didn't pick up some of his errors.

I disagree with your conclusion that it's propaganda, though. I think the book reflects his opinions and wasn't meant to be a manifesto of some sort. If there are people who choose to transform it into propaganda, that's up to them.

Good morning, Bettie! Hugs to you.

Cute hat!

Tony B: Look in Chapter Two, near the middle.

Paul S: I'm not in the habit of carrying books around with me where ever I go. I assure you, I have not misrepresented Dawkins' position -- I actually re-read it many times because his conclusion was so surprising to me.

Atom74: Your response is similar to Dawkins' explanation of "Einsteinian religion." Very interesting, indeed.

Answer 1

agreed. for example; some people firmly believe in aliens, without proof, and some dismiss these people as deranged. in order to adequately dismiss their claims we would have to see their evidence and dismiss it scientifically. we can't do that, however, since the evidence for their claim is so lacking.

but the question remains: is it within the realm of possibility that aliens exist? sure. do i have any evidence this is so? no. so i do not believe in the existence of aliens based on this lack of evidence, however, i must admit the possibility because i and no human knows the true extent of such possibilities. the universe is a big and surprising place. one thing we CAN say can be dismissed 100%...and that is the claim that a PARICULAR race of alien(s) exists with SPECIFIC qualities. we would first need to definitively determine that aliens exist before we could know anything about them.

just replace aliens with god(s).

Answer 2

If a died in the wool theist can believe 100% that there IS a god, why could not an Atheist believe 100% that there is NOT a god? We are discussing belief not logic.

How would you measure 100% belief anyway?

I am a hard agnostic theist. I believe that there is a creator but I do not logically think it is possible to prove that believe beyond a shadow of a doubt.
I know that there are non-human intelligences. I have had contact with them.
I believe some are benevolent, some are benign, and some are malevolent.
I doubt that any that I have had personal experience with could be the Creator- of- All. I know that they could not prove it.

ADD to Twist: SOME Atheists DO hate god/religion. Atheism is a general term and is sometimes used by anti-religionists to label themselves.
We all (myself included) need to be careful about making sweeping generalities about groups that include outspoken minorities.

Answer 3

Are you sure he said that? Can we see the exact quote?

The fact that there is no proof that God doesn't exist certainly doesn't imply that no-one can "completely - 100% - disbelieve there is a God". That's two entirely different things, and I'd have assumed that Dawkins would be aware of that.

I completely do not believe that there is a God. I also recognize that I cannot prove that there is not a God - of course there's no reason for me to bother trying to do so. I also believe that there's a chance that there will turn out to be a God after all.

If Dawkins thinks those statements are mutually incompatible, he doesn't understand epistemology as well as I'd have assumed he does. However, I strongly suspect that you're unintentionally describing his position inaccurately.

Answer 4

I think there are some people who 100% disbelieve in God, I've certainly met such people. Dawkins is right, I think, to suggest this viewpoint is unscientific, since you can't scientifically falsify God.

When I was a skeptic, I pointedly refused to call myself an atheist, preferring 'agnostic', as I considered the tenets of what some might term 'positive atheism' to be beyond what the evidence could demonstrate.

Even as a Catholic, I have to admit that Jesus' own words from the cross, "Eli, eli, lema sabacthani" (My God my God, why have you abandoned me?) suggest the converse is true for us as well. Our faith is not a certainty - it is faith, which married with hope, and especially love, form the foundation of our religious commitment.

Answer 5

there is a problem with disbelieving anything - much the way that there is a problem with knowing that your wife has never been unfaithful to you.

conspiracy theorists believe that the lack of evidence for any given scenario (jews masterminded 9/11) only proves how excellent the cover-up has been.

in science there is no such thing as certainty, so it is an aspect of atheism that atheism itself is falsifiable.

it is only postulates which are falsifiable which are meaningful, and therefore it is only postulates which are falsifiable which can ever be true.

Answer 6

I think (perhaps) you have misquoted him a little, or misunderstand:

It is NOT possible to dis-PROVE the existence of god. That is a true logical fact (you cannot prove a negative).

But this is different from belief.

Of course individuals are free to 100% dis-BELIEVE in god, and since no one can claim to know what is in another mans heart. If someone makes this claim, that they dis-believe in gods existence, I am forced to acknowledge their statement (that they 100% do not believe in god).

The subtle difference here is (personal) belief and scientific proof.

These things shouldn't surprise you, it's really just logic 101.

Atheists, contrary to what the religious folks here claim, don't hate god, and don't hate the idea of god, they simply do not find the evidence of his existence in anyone's holy books (but perhaps this is only opinion).

In fact, as a non-believer (and former christian) I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can really (REALLY) read ANY of those religious books and not see how chocked full of fallacies, contradictions, inconstancies, atrocities, and non-sense they are.

I can understand looking at the awe of nature and perhaps seeing some kind of proof of god there, but once you really look and really understand scientific principles, even this mystery begins to fade.

I am completely open to the existence of a supreme being, I think it would be nice and would answer a lot of deep questions. I relish the idea that my dad is in heaven, safe and sound and that I will get to see him again. But reality keeps getting in the way (for me).

The only way to really believe is to shut down the logical checks and balances that we have in our brains, stop questioning things a just have FAITH (turnoff your brain). I can't - no, I WON'T do that - and I think my dad and god would both be pissed if I did.

Answer 7

Faith is a human condition, we really do want to believe, yet we have no proof. I don't agree that there is no God. I also don't believe there is a Christian God either. I think the fact that the Universe is so magnificent in it's complexity and that humans are really quite ignorant in their senses leads me to believe there is a Higher Power. I don't think this power has a sentience as we understand it to be, that is just a projection of human values and understanding. However I can fully understand the reasons why people so desperately want to believe and why there are so many faiths in this world.

Answer 8

People can believe or disbelieve all they like -- but as Nietzsche observed in his hypothetical stroll through the insane asylum, it doesn't prove a thing.

If we're going to be intellectually honest, however, most atheists will freely admit that it's POSSIBLE for a god to exist; but given the current evidence, it's about as likely as the Tooth Fairy or Bertrand Russell's Celestial Teapot...

Answer 9

In the proper context, yes, I'd agree. It all boils down to socialization. If the idea is not present in your society, then you are not likely to create it. You may create other things that may later evolve into a god or gods by those that pick up your thoughts, but you are unlikely to create anything like god and truly believe it once you know you've invented it.

Improbable does not imply impossible.

Edit: godless, you are 100000000000% correct in your assessment. Once one knows how magic is performed, it is no longer magical...

Answer 10

I agree.

You almost never meet an atheist who is 100% certain that god does not exist. Most of us feel that it is more like 99.9999%. The .0001 left over is the same possibility for the Easter Bunny and Santa.

Also, religion and god-worship is so common in society that it is hard to get over.