Leviticus 18:22
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Romans 1:26-27 excerpt for character space
"Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
---------Now, the question, 2 parts.
Assume I am not a Christian, and am male. I undergo a sex change operation making me appear female, and have female parts minus a uterus.
I then proceed to marry a Christian male, without telling him about the operation performed on me.
He never asks.
We proceed to lay together as a man does with a woman.
Does this make the Christian male a sinner to his religion?
What if I tell him 5 years after marriage, and he remains with me?
I'm serious here, thanks.
2007-12-28
00:16:16
·
20 answers
·
asked by
Anonymous
in
Society & Culture
➔ Religion & Spirituality
@ayoungwomanonearth's
It doesn't make the marriage a fraud if he never asks. This was included in the original question.
2007-12-28
00:24:13 ·
update #1
The "woman" sinning is irrelevant, "she" cannot sin, "she" is not Christian, "she" has no belief in sin. Furthermore while I agree the "woman" hasn't been completely honest about her birth gender, to her, she would now be a woman in her mind through the "miracle" of cosmetic surgery. So there would be no need for her to find it a relevant point to tell.
Yes, this was obviously a hypothetical question, and the "I" asking was a hypothetical "I" hence my change in this addition to using "she" and "woman" however, this shouldn't bring any irrelevance to the conundrum asked.
2007-12-28
03:54:32 ·
update #2
1) Those verses have a context that is arguable.
Some Christians think they apply today. As a pastor, I do not. The Levitical laws applied to Jewish men who by definition were married. You were not a "real israelite man" if you did not marry. The only way to fulfill the promise of Abraham was through children. Marriage was required. Paul in Romans was talking about non-marital, pagan-temple sex. The perversion was to worship false gods and then be so terrible as to engage in non marital sex with both women and then men. I know men who after a lot of sexual experimenting become bisexual, and men who have sex with men only for fun not love...never intending to seriously love or date a man. 1 out of 3 men have sex with men in their lifetime but unlike homosexual men, most never plan on LOVING and committing to a man. That makes it a sin from the start. Christian sex is married sex if you want to have the bible as the norm. And the norm for Christians is sexual monogamy.
2) Iran is a good example for those who think that transgendered sex is wrong. Iranian clerics realize that some people are born in the wrong body and under koran and sharia law, they allow transgendered surgery and the government pays. They become fully the other sex with legal rights.
3) The most male or female thing about a human is their brain. No surgery or drugs or hormones can be given to a normal man and "make" him a woman in his mind. Sometimes the body and the brain do not match. A transgendered person is not sexually confused; they are a female brain in a male body.
4)
For the sake of arguing, lets say you are a fundie Christian who thinks that gay sex is wrong always, and men and women are different under god (man is the head of the marriage). Now let us realize that is hormones that make a woman's brain female, and a male’s brain mail. If a female brain that was in a male body is now both female in brain and body...then by loving them as their new "fully female" self, you are part of the "adam and eve" paradigm.
****
I would argue that even if the man felt he should now divorce this "man" for not being a woman, he has not sinned. He did not have gay sex. He had sex with a female body.
One can rarely "sin" sexually without intent, in my opinion. One can accidentally do evil, wrong, or unhealthy things, but the key factor of most "sin” is that sin means to intentionally miss the mark. (Paul argues that ignorance of the law does not count, but Paul also is building a rhetorical case at that point that may not generally apply ontologically to all cases of sin.) Intentional sin is knowing what I should do and do not doing it. You can only lie if know that what you say is false and say it anyway. Some sins may occur without intent, especially sins of omission or over abuse of power.
For example, in the OT, sex with a non betrothed woman by a married man was not a sin. It did not break the OT law. It was frowned on, but breaks no law. A man was not punished for sex with a virgin. He did not offer a sacrifice. He paid the father and married her or he paid the father and did not (if her dad did not want to give her) the payment was for economic purposes, not moral.
Today, Christians believe that a married man sin when he sleeps with a woman that is not his wife. The bible never explicitly says that (how do you define porniea is the issue) but we can imply it. Such behavior is a sin only implicitly, but I argue that it is.
As a pastor, I would say to the man "If you can still love this person and forgive their duplicity, then stay with her. To the woman I would say, " Christian or not, you need to treat the one you love with respect. You were a bad person when you did this and I hope you change your ways."
p.s. people, even the pope, who spout off on this issue without meeting with christians who is transgendered and learning about what life is like for them, and then studying the medical facts are fools.
if Iran can figure out that transgendered is a real medical condition, it shows how dumb the catholic church or any other is who refuses to let the Spirit of Christ be the guide. I doubt seriously I would enter into marriage with a avowed nonchristian, but if I did, her being formerly a man (if I could get over it) would not be the big issue. her deceit is the isse. whether I divorce or stay, I would not have sinned.
2007-12-31 22:51:13
·
answer #1
·
answered by KelticPete 3
·
2⤊
0⤋
The "transgendered" person is still genetically male, despite the outward attempts to emasculate him.
The Christian man who marries the transgendered person unaware of the facts is innocent of any sin because he had no intention of committing a sin and no knowledge that he was in a potentially sinful situation.
Whether or not the Christian man moves into a state of sin if he chooses to stay with the transgendered person after finding out the truth is a complex question that cannot be answered without more facts about his attitude, the nature of the relationship as it progresses when the transgendered person reveals the secret, etc.
I must agree, however, that the marriage was not valid, as the transgendered person was not honest about the situation, and the Christian man married somebody who wasn't exactly who he thought she was. Perhaps if he had known that the woman he was dating was actually a transgendered male, he would not have fallen in love with her or married her. In such a case, one would think it would be fitting to release him from his vows if he so chooses.
Starting off a marriage with such a huge secret does not bode well for the marriage. If a transgendered person was dating somebody, he or she ought to be honest with the other person before the relationship escalates to love. Yes, it's a risk, but if you can't be 100% of who you really are with the person you are dating, the relationship isn't good enough.
2007-12-28 01:52:31
·
answer #2
·
answered by sparki777 7
·
1⤊
2⤋
Catholic theology:
To sin, There are 3 components, one of those components is to knowingly commit the act. This would not be a sin on the part of the man (initially) as he did not know he entering this area.
As for the not asking... who asks their future spouse... "so... had a sex change operation?"
If you tell him latter, then it becomes complicated.
Also by catholic theology
1) the marriage was not valid. Marriage is only between a man and a woman. The 'woman' is not really a woman, therefore the marriage is not valid.
2) the marriage would easily be annuled, but that wouldn't change things for the (real) man. He would really love him/her/it. It would be an emotional blow, but then how would he deal with the fact that he/she had been lying to him all these years?
3) I wouldn't want to have to choose between a false marriage with a false woman or having to leave the "woman" I love. Perhaps learning he/she had been lying about it might make it easier, but I don't know.
The 'woman' committed several sins in the catholic church's view
1) changing his/her sex
2) misleading/lying to the man
3) assuming he/she knows that this makes an invalid marriage, then he/she is committing knowing sex long term outside of marriage.
I'm sure there are others as well. I suppose you could say homosexuality, but... weird situation
2007-12-28 03:24:12
·
answer #3
·
answered by Ray M 6
·
0⤊
2⤋
The liar, the one who committed the fraud, would be guilty of sin not only against god and nature but also guilty of harming a totally innocent person. With no religious sentiment involved that would make him a lousy human. From a biblical point of view the fooled is innocent until he was told of the criminal behavior of the deceiver. After that then he should leave the man. Jesus said go forth and sin no more to the woman being stoned. People remember "let him without sin cast the first stone" and then forget "go forth and sin no more. I cant imagine a Jerry Springer scenario playing out like this and I believe there's little chance of this actually happening. The old testament would find the two men guilty and stone them. Christ would say go forth and sin no more. The two parts of the bible are divided and with Christ came grace.
2007-12-28 00:39:15
·
answer #4
·
answered by Anonymous
·
2⤊
2⤋
The word "sin" in the KJV is translated from 13 different Hebrew words That makes it a bit confusing. I think the sense of "sin" you are talking about is the word which means intentional disobedience. In that case the scene you present would not seem to be sin. I am confident that sex change operations are not part of the Almighty's plan. However, in the case you present, I don't feel that remaining would be a sin. Then there is the plight of the poor people who are not truly of either sex, largely due to mineral deficiencies. Some questions do not have neat answers, for there is no neat line of division. In the end YHVH will sort it all out, and He does very good work.
2007-12-28 00:25:48
·
answer #5
·
answered by hasse_john 7
·
2⤊
3⤋
You fooling the Christian man does not make him a sinner.
You telling him after five years, besides making him feel like the biggest idiot on the planet for not knowing, for him to stay with you would make him a sinner.
There are countless "what ifs" you can come up with regarding trans-gender relationships and sin.
Take comfort in knowing that God is a just God.
2007-12-28 00:27:59
·
answer #6
·
answered by Richard F 6
·
2⤊
2⤋
I believe that God is just, so if he didn't know, he wouldn't be sinning in that particular area.
But.... A practicing Christian man would not marry a non-Christian if He is truly walking in daily relationship with Christ. His decision to marry would be guided by the Holy Spirit, and I don't believe that the Spirit would guide him to marry a man who had altered himself to appear as a woman. So to me, the question is irrelevant. The "sin" would've been marrying without God's guidance.
2007-12-28 02:18:04
·
answer #7
·
answered by BaseballGrrl 6
·
0⤊
2⤋
Assuming you did something like that... The word sin is man made in order to control people. But if you will a sin would be to kill someone, to rob someone, things like that. What do you care what primitive shepherds and later primitive priests once said? If there is a God, His word is more universal than what you can find in the Old Testament. Now, there's one thing there that's certainly bad... A sin? Not to tell him the truth. Or to only tell it after five years. That's very dishonest.
2007-12-28 00:25:19
·
answer #8
·
answered by truly 6
·
2⤊
3⤋
According to the Christian Bible this is a sin once he knowingly enters into this arrangement, however as long as he asked for forgiveness then he would be forgiven for this sin.
I am not Christian so I am not going to get into my beliefs on this, but suffice it to say, if you live and breathe in today's society then you are going to sin according to the Bible. Ask for forgiveness and have your sins taken away.
2007-12-28 00:30:55
·
answer #9
·
answered by Storm 3
·
1⤊
2⤋
Tricking a person under any situation wrong.
As an Atheist I belief you are asking a false question with no real meaning.
2007-12-28 00:25:33
·
answer #10
·
answered by Anonymous
·
6⤊
0⤋