What do you think, Do individuals matter or the larger organisations or the Ideals, the holistic better cause?

Question

Are the individuals important or the larger organisations important or the holistic better Cause is important ?

Can an individual be sacrificed for a better cause of a smaller society? Can a soceity be sacrificed for a better cause for a larger section or society ? Can smaller organisations be sacrificed for the better causes of a Larger Organisation ? Can a Large Organisation be sacrificed for a better cause for the whole Nation ? Can a Nation be sacrificed for the Better Cause of the Whole World ?

Can this be a reverse process also like the Whole World can be sacrificed for the better cause of the few sections ?

Who determines the Better Cause ? Is it the Majority ? Can the Majority be always Right ?

Are there eternal holistic Values in this world, for which everything else can be sacrificed for a Greater Better Cause for a Better Existence in Future even with fewer people ?

Are these Eternal Values that add real glory and interest to existence are something like this. Truthfulness in thought, word and deed,

Righteous Action with a view and planning for the welfare of all holistically, not just for a few sections with selfish interests for existence of a very few,

Peace and harmony of thought word and deed, within and without,

Love for All, not just the selfish love for a few sections.

Non - Violence, Norms with Civilized Qualities and control rather than with Animalistic Qualities of existence without any control and full of vigour like the clinical precision of the Doctors. Like the capabilities of the Cattle Boy who control a whole lot of animals with out causing stampede with his stick. Like the Teacher who control the innocent children in a crafty way without causing violence in the class

Are these the Ideals for which Human Beings should aspire for to have or Are these the ideals the Leaders and Role Models in Society ought to have?

Of course for masses like cattle or children, they can be just check forces to check the abilities of the Cattle boy or the Teacher controlling the whole lot of innocent Children, but with the Controlling threads and Power to the Children, can we say for certain its a move towards total disaster for certain ? like the uncivilized living of animals in the jungles where just the raw physical strengths only matter ?

Are the human beings more evolved because they know how to handle and control the Raw Power much better than animals do ?

Is it the reason animals, despite with their sheer strength more than human beings are still slaves and obedient to the human beings ? Are the animals following the Values solely becuase of the Fear of the Stick from the Cattle Boy because of previous experience ?

Is this the way God run this Universe with Holistic Human Values ? Few thoughtful volunterly obeying thinking of the larger causes to avoid the possible stampedes and

the larger masses that are not evolved that much out of sheer fear for going against the Holistic Value Systems that run this world in a more Civilized Manner and with a minimun decorum providing platforms for all to present and express their strengths in a more controlled and civilized fashion making a nice and peaceful presentation in the World for all adding beauty to the Divine Drama of the Lord.

What are your thoughts ?

Nigeljie, You have put up a very holistic view. But the Nature inherently is a combination of Rajas and Tamas also along with Satvic Qualities. People differ with different aspirations and abilities. For some USD 40 per Hour is enough, For some this pay is so much for the needs of his liking and for a planning big Industrialist perhaps this too low for the leverage he is planning for a big envisged project to satisfy his urge for presentation in this world.

Perhaps the better method is to instill more and more Satvic Qualities into the Society, cultivating more and more Holistic Human Values in the Society, so that the chemistry of the society shall readjust more and more automatically to take itself. Perhaps a Doctor's clinical hand for surgery or dissection as a part of non - violence with minor injuries to avoid major break downs in future also perhaps necessary, of course with a holistic eye for wellfare for all including the dissected or punished like the ignorant and innocent

child getting some beatings from the Tracher for his mischieves, hurting others in turn Hurting himself very much in the longer journey of life with a wicked habit that shall cause tremendous problems for him and for the society.

Perhaps Teacher's timely action like a cattle boy who guide the cattle with more of stick, because the innocent child does not understand the holistic language of doing good always and the law of Karma. When he understand only the language of stick, the thoughtful teacher perhaps should utilize the stick judiciously with a much larger holistic Value System, the well fare of all, including the child. Of course if the child understand the language of Karma, that you reap only what you sow, perhaps words are enough. But statistics show that the ones in this world instilled with Satvic Qualities are few compared to the other two qualities of Rajas and Tamas, perhaps the dumb ones that know not any art of aggression control. Here in this case perhaps the

stick can be used to bring the innocent child and cattle to move on without causing harm for others and also for themselves. Of course, the ability of the Doctor using scissors, the Teacher and Cattle Boy using stick are of paramount importance.

Perhaps that's where the Five Human Values and Ideals come up, the increase of which shall always be good for the society. Perhaps its a single remedy that can be used and instilled by any one within themselves and in others. Truth, Righteousness, Peace, Love and Nonviolence. May be if the plan is to instill this in the instiller first before trying to instill in others, perhaps a holistic plot shall be set and the controlling stick and Scissors shall automatically get transferred into the hands of ablest users who have instilled within themselves these ideals. Perhaps these should be the people who should be given power for dissection and be the role models in Society who can lead. Perhaps Power to use stick should not be handed over to

the lesser ones with lower level of ideology with a lot of tinge to sway away from these five human values. They are perhaps the cattle to be run by learned ideoligists for their own and also the whole society's cordial and co-operative existence. Here three more links, where one shows of the existing plight of different levels of people in our society. Another one shows of benefits to be given to the innocent ones by the controllers in a holistic fashion with Love and Care to make them pleased for a better presentation of the society and the last link shows how vested interests of selfishness should not be used to underplay and thwart the Value Systems to take roots in the society. Perhaps Devil is not there to be hated but to be loved only, but the Controlling Power should be with the God only, perhaps because like the ignorant and uncontrolled cattle can not and do not know to use the power for the bettermine of the whole society in a holistic manner.Perhaps since they do not posses

the farsightedness to look beyond the immediate results dumbards so far possible, should be kept away from controlling the stick badly injuring many in an uncontrolled fashion. May be this is the responsibility of the Thoughtful to attempt to give the stick in the right hand of the learned Cowherd, perhaps man could utilise the more strong animals with lesser intelligence in a Civilized Manner because of this God's gifted additional quality to human beings called Intellect. Of course there are Cow boys who utilize their intelligence to hurt the non thoughtful animals without a holistic approach, also some who give alchohol to horses to attack others and get things done for our selfish interests subtly pretending to help the horses with alcohol that give momentary freedom causing permanent hell and disastors that can not be recouped from.

But perhaps the Stick of Power always should be given to the Idealistic Cowherd who thinks and acts holistically, not anything less, perhaps like

Yudhishtira, the Dharma Puthrar from Pandavas.

Perhaps we need not require as many Teachers and Cowherds as the Number of Children and Cattle. So when the stick of Power is to be given perhaps we should give it to the very few Holistic Persons only. From the first link below it seems its 30 % now. Perhaps that's enough for the time being while attempts are made to increase the level of Satvic Quality in Society by instilling the the Five Human Values within and without in thought, word and deed. The increase in the percentage level of Satvic Quality shall certainly pave way for a Healthy and Co-Operative Competition to hold the Stick of Power and Control.

Here the First link mentioned above on present condition on Thrigunas.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AmBRrjMU4JRpXbwGTJh8OPHty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071119033907AAed4Y3

Here perhaps a guiding link into how it should be with this Q on Islam Values..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Apar7Big5mtngti1CzaIyckjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20071203215410AAA7WsK

And perhaps here one link on how it should not be. The vested interests with too much hunger and desire for capturing Complete Power somehow without any ideology and without any will and desire to pursue good things that they even feel are good. Perhaps with a single pointed agenda for Absolute Power with selfish interests and motives of a few without the responsibility to do good to the people that shall hold good in the longer term interest of the masses.

With only one lust, that's somehow thru any means keep that feeling of Absolute Power, even thwarting the good ones, like Duryodhana, Dussana and the Blind Dhritharashtrar did during the times of the epic Mahabharata to keep away the more Satvic Pandavas.

May be the following link depicts a scenario where holistic Value System is tried to be thwarted by a few vested ones against aspirations for goodness by many..

Here one more link ..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ake6_yace9noUJcf_KpV69Lty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20070619213240AAzqBzQ

Here one more link discussing into Objective and Subjective Morality

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ap6jTY0K5zg5YlOna7kkFdkjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20071127025529AA9UHn1

Here one more link into some aspects discussing some tips of an big iceberg indicating why power should not be rested with thoughtless, ignorant ones without a holistic outlook. The stocks crashed the next day devilishly in a frenzy and recovered subsequently because of the balancing act that was done by non - frenzied ones in response to a frenzied devilish act caused by a few thoughtless perhaps like the innocent child's miracle story in the Islam Values link. But perhaps Power to use or not use stick is not to be rested with innocent and ignorant children who act thoughtlessly.

Here one link into it discussing some of those aspects ..

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjHN5gkm4MdAK2NxmVcFwiHty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071016030637AAmcV09

Answer 1

An individual is important to run large organisation, society, nation religion, ashram ----whatever it may be.
A shepherd, like Baba, is a must to take care of ignorant cows.
What a tragic death to Benazir Bhutto inflicted by ignorance.

Answer 2

using fact those anybody is many times no longer veterans. real homeless veterans are almost chased down and drug into Outreach centers run by skill of the VA. the real situation your question demonstrates is the incontrovertible fact that there are so few human beings in our society that understand something approximately militia provider which you're actually not in a place to locate the pretend veterans. to boot - for the reason that veterans get greater sympathy than your run of the mill substance abuser - the homeless advocates will inflate the numbers of homeless veterans as a fashion to safeguard greater investment. the subsequent time you notice somebody claiming to be a homeless veteran, I advise which you detect a _real_ veteran to talk to that guy or woman for a couple of minutes. ninety% of the time the real veteran will out the different guy as a fraud. .

Answer 3

Individuals, the starting point: they need togetherness to safeguard the individual's safety, comfort, need for society etc.: then, the organisation: thereafter the mutual needs, complementing each other, one for all, and, all for one principle! Take it up from there, you will see that there is a method in all this madness! There is no sacrifice, really: there is only some offering with a purpose, eventually for the good of the individual, every individual! (they are all grouped into societies, organisations, religions, castes, creeds etc., accidentally, not really from choice, sometimes if not accidentally, then by compulsions!)

Answer 4

After such a short, question. You will forgive me, if I just comment on the headline.
INDIVIDUALS are of imperative IMPORTANCE. Companies and ideals lack that one Imperative Factor.
An Personality, which is the Humanistic Approach. Which incorporates such thing's, as Common Sense Approach and the Perspective of Self verses the Well Being of the Community

Answer 5

I beleive the apraisment of meaning is not objective understanding but rather subjective interpretation that has no objective correctness. There is no meaning outside the mind and meaning can be placed in the mind onto anything in this world individually or holistically.

Answer 6

There is nothing similar ,,every thing differs so do indviduals,, One person doesnt match the other one..even if a mother tries to her best she just cannot produce another kid similar to the one produced by her earlier.To me it looks absurd to look at people as a group..we just cant treat people like a hurd of animals....
To me it is individual which matters the most..
lets dont wait for leaders, let us do it as man to man,,human to human...
if you look and asess we will find majority of the people are not matured.A few over matured are swaying away the majority .i mean majority is of fools who get carried away by a few matured people..hence majority doesnt mean any thing as most of the people dont matter much in real senses.
ONLY A FEW ,WICKED ONE'S WILL BE LEFT IF A GAME OF SACRIFICE WILL GET STARTED.
So better lets do it one by one,one to one,human to human,,no leaders please,,,,,,,,,

Answer 7

I believe now that we need each other to exist., be relate.
Once you understand the other the side of the pic ( story), it helps!

"AmouR"

Answer 8

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few--or of the one."
--Spock

Answer 9

Again, we set up in our minds a false dichotomy, society and the individual, as though they were distinct, absolutely different. They are different, but not totally different.
We have to remind ourselves of the obvious, that society is made of nothing but individuals. Because the concepts are different, and because our consciousness is limited, we forget that society and individuals are also very much the same. We forget the great overlapping of the reality behind the concepts. The concepts are a shorthand for the reality, the concepts are only the tip of the iceberg of the reality they stand for. We fail to see that under the water, the reality is that the two concepts are almost completely one.

Society is for the individuals. The purpose of society is to benefit the individuals. If they are worse off in society than in nature, they have been injured, they have been robbed. If they are injured, they will injure society. Eg, Alexander the socalled great said he could always take a city with a golden arrow, that is, that he could bribe the disaffected, the injured, to betray the city. It takes only one person to secretly open the gates. Every injured person is an erosion of the strength of the state, and thus affects everyone. The person who is pursuing her own happiness 100%, loving themself, caring for themself with all their energy and good sense, will be extremely active taking care not to injure anyone, not to have anyone injured, because injury does not fade away, injury ricochets untiringly as atoms, and indeed, unlike atoms, injury accelerates, as injury is payed back with greater injury. Bombs beget bigger bombs. If a person loves themselves perfectly, if they understand that their total duty to themselves is to maximise their own happiness, they will be utterly devoted to minimising injury, because injury ricochets and accelerates. The golden rule is harder than steel, it is not mocked, it is the only realism, the only practicality, the only sense, the only love of oneself. All else is selfdestruction, selfhate, selfharming. So if one person in a state is worse off in society than in nature, society is being selfdestructive. Society cannot injure some for the benefit of society as a whole, because every person is part of the whole. Injury of any is injury of the whole. The golden rule is very, very simple and obvious, but very few have learned it, most think that they can get away with injuring. So societies often fail to avoid injury of some. All societies at the present time are careless about injuring some, about sacrificing some, as though this is necessary or good for society. Naturally everyone makes mistakes, but societies are not even trying to be careful not to injure any. They have faith that they can injure without reaping the return injury. This is the mentality of bullies. Bullies have no consciousness of the power of others to retaliate. They have no consciousness of the strength of the weak. The injurers think they are stronger than the strength of all the people, or, rather, they do not think about it at all. They are just mindless about the matter, and go on stealing, injuring in one way and another, till their time comes, when the people gather their strength and push them out. There are still bullies, although every plutocracy [gang of thieves] in history has fallen. Although every plutocracy, every overpaid group, has had to fight constantly all their lives to keep their stolen goods, their overpay, has had to be constantly engaged in alertness against attack from the injured. The very simple golden rule is still not attended to, is still not accepted as true, as harder than steel, as the only practicality. Yet everyone knows that people very rarely take theft and other injury lying down. You spit on someone, they break your nose. Other-injury is self-injury. Charlie Chaplin portrayed this stupidity beautifully when he hits a boxing machine, and the boxing machine hits him back with equal force, and Charlie gets mad at the machine for hitting him, and hits it as hard as he can. And gets knocked to the ground. In Israel, they keep firing rockets at Palestine. If, instead of Palestine, there was a machine that turned the Israeli rockets around, back to them, the Israelis would have the brains [I guess] not to fire rockets. But just because the 'machine' turning the rockets around is people, doing in effect exactly the same thing as the machine, sending rockets on the Israelis, the Israelis don't stop. Instead of thinking of themselves, and saving themselves from injury, they are thinking of the 'justice' of firing rockets at people who fire rockets at them. And this completely blinds them to their self-injury by firing rockets. So in some ways, in some areas, people are very, very dumb. The Palestinians have 20th of the pay per unit of work, this is theft, injury, and therefore selfharming. None enjoy unless all enjoy. People can never be injured without injuring back. It would be much, much cheaper for the Israelis to give the Palestinians equality, pay justice. Instead, the Israelis have infinite cost over infinite time, with the endless back and forth of injury, ever-growing. The Israelis are not thinking enough about themselves, they are not being selfish enough! If they thought only of what is best for themselves, they would not injure, they would be very careful to measure justice and avoid injury. And it is the same everywhere. The golden age is just this understanding away. Understanding that people are too dangerous to annoy. If someone fires rockets at you, inquire what has angered them, and assess the injury objectively, and fix it, and have eternal peace instead of eternal vendetta back and forth of weaponry. What do people want, peace or ever-escalating war? It is a no-brainer, but people haven't yet got enough brains for a no-brainer. People see part not the whole. Their minds are completely filled with the other side's evil deeds. Their minds are not big enough to hold both the other sides' injuries to them and their injuries to the other side. They see only one side of the scales of justice, and consequently go on hurting themselves by hurting others. People are not to blame, they did not make themselves. But they can take responsibility for their own happiness. They can fight the limitations of the human mind they have been given. American are attacked in 9/11 by outsiders [they think] and what do they do? They resolve to have more defense, to pay more of their store to increase defense. America spends 46% of all the defense budget of the world, and they think that more will do! But if injury is greater than the defense, the defense will fail, however great the defence is. If the dam is very high, but the water behind is higher, the water will overflow. It is practical to lower the water behind [the injury], and be free of cost of building the dam higher, free of the danger of the dam breaking. America spends 46% of world military defense, and it has not succeeded in defending itself, and they are still full of faith in defense without measuring injury! America is US$9 trillion in debt with selfdefense, and it is not hesitating in its course. And other nations are not much smarter.

The golden rule is the rule of karma, of dharma. None enjoy unless all enjoy. Injury to one is injury to all. The boxing machine of karma never fails, never breaks. It is merciless, utterly heartless, harder than steel. Injury never dies, injury ever grows, except with justice. The size of a heap of wealth, of plunder, of overpay, individual, national or imperial, is always finite. And the energy of the injured in infinite over time. Injury energises. The robbed, the underpaid, the enslaved, can only throw grains of sand, but sand erodes rocks. No heap of wealth, of plunder, economic or military, has ever preserved itself. The underpaid have lost many battles, they have never lost a war. Every heap of overpay in history has fallen! And has been preserved for finite time only with enormous labour, enormous danger, enormous anxiety. The saying, the state built on injustice cannot stand, is older than the Romans, and yet has not been born yet in the human mind. Ceausescu of Rumania had the secret police of a nation defending him, and he fell! Communism had secret police, every brutality, every terrorism, to subdue the injured, and it fell. How many examples do people need, in order to see? We are so intelligent, and in this one area, we are as dumb as can be. The gods are very cruel to make us so dumb in this area. It is like a black hole in our brains. The simple, simple common sense of the golden rule disappears in it.

So no, I do not think that any can be sacrificed for the greater good. People don't like being sacrificed. People are far too dangerous to annoy. Their sense of justice is far too active. The injurer may not be mindful of the injury, but the injured are. Everywhere people think it is good for them to get as much as they can out of the pool of social wealth. The more you get out, the better a person you are, everyone thinks. But the contribution by the individual to the social pool of wealth is limited to their work, and getting out more than you put in means others getting out less, and that is injury, and that is self-harming for absolute sure. Not success but failure. Not happiness but misery. People think: What I take out is so little compared to the size of the pool, it can't hurt, but there is such great freedom to take out without limit, that the fact is that the pool of social wealth is 98% drained. 99% get out less than they put in. 90% get out between 100th and 10,000th of what they put in. And money is the joker good, good for virtually all good things. 1% get 98% of world income, and it is a super-misery to them, as for Ceausescu, and for Stalin, labouring mightily all his life to stay alive, to stop the water of injury overflowing and drowning him. If one person takes the property of 1000, he has merely more than he can use, and 1000 enemies. I cannot help but feel that people will see soon, and thus very quickly move into the golden age, into having all the happiness we can have, into returning to our natural birthright levels of happiness. Every worker in the world, including housewives and students, would be on US$40 an hour with justice! Technological progress would be 100 times faster, because 90% of people who could be scientists are too poor to become scientists, and 90% of the scientists we have are tied up in the consequences of super-super-extreme pay injustice, in the military-industrial complex, in the courts, in the universities, in the government, in the police, in the hospitals. Half the hospital beds in the world are taken up with diseases caused by diseased water, which is because of super-poverty, which is caused by pay injustice, everyone wanting unlimited pay for limited contribution. I cannot help but feel and hope that people will find it in themselves to be selfish and greedy enough to want this vast goodness for themselves. The 1% overpaid are necessarily extremely miserable! They have danger in proportion to the size of the overpay, and they can get nothing from the overpay, because the desires of the body are limited, and all desires are satisfied by fairpay of US$40 an hour, US$100,000 per worker, US$200,000 per family, or US$300,000 per family with a student in it. Money is good up to fairpay, but above that, it turns to misery, because it means underpay, injury, for others, meaning danger, self-injury, proportional to the overpay, and all but the teenytiniest of desires are satisfied by fairpay. The illusion that more money is always better mesmerises people. The overpaid can spend more, but they cannot consume more. Satisfaction waits on appetite. Water to the unthirsty is nothing. The richest person in the world does not eat more, drink more, sit in more chairs, lie in more beds, have more sex, drugs and rock and roll than the fairpaid. The underpaid still have desires unsatisfied, so they know nothing of the exhaustion of desires. And the endless costs of self-defense drives the overpaid ever onward to more money. But more overpay is more injury, more danger. Every defense by attack adds to injury. And the endless costs of self-defense drive the overpaid to attack the overpaid! Crime gangs slaughter one another, kings attack kings. Hell on earth. The cruel gods are laughing themselves into fits. People will begin to see. People will connect the dots.

World income [PPP figures - purchasing power parity] is derived from Sprout and Weaver, International distribution of income, 1960-1987, Kyklos, v45, 1992, pp237-258, compounded with global inflation since 1987. Global income is US$300 trillion, and there are 3 billion [fulltime equivalent] workers including housewives and students. happinessfinneganswake.bl ogspot.com