If Jesus is the Father, then why would He say concerning the end of the world ......?

Question

that no one knows the time, not the angels, nor even Jesus Himself but only the Father knows?

Jack, I agree. It is a source of much controversy. Your knowledge of Christianity astounds me, dude.

I did not mean that sarcastic at all. I've read other answers you've given about Christianity and you know more than some Christians.

Dusty Scribe - I like the link. Thanks so much.

Hi Ramjet. Thanks for your answer. It is honest from your heart and informative.

Answer 1

Jesus said to Philip, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

So, how does Jesus not know when He is to come, but the Father only?

This is because Jesus was using a wedding idiom or model. Notice the disciples did not question what Jesus was saying. They knew what Jewish weddings were like, and they understood completely what He was talking about.

You see, when a marriage is arranged in Jewish culture of that day, there is a betrothal. This betrothal is as binding as being already married. This is what our accepting Christ into our heart is, a betrothal. The bridegroom gives gifts of promise that he will return, which is what the Holy Spirit is for us. When the bridegroom leaves, he goes to prepare a small house built onto the side of his father's house where they will live. Jesus said, "I go and prepare a place for you." The bridegroom continues to build under the father's watchful eye. The bridegroom cannot stop until the father sees that everything is perfect and ready. Then the father says, "It is done, go get your bride." The bridegroom then rushes out, at a time unknown to everyone else, and comes in to "steal the bride away" to the marriage supper that is being prepared.

So you see, Jesus was speaking in a wedding idiom so that the disciples could picture what the marriage supper of the Lamb was going to be. A wedding between He and the New Jerusalem--the Bride.

http://schnebin.blogspot.com/2007/03/ancient-jewish-wedding-idiom.html

The Jewish Wedding

THE BEGINNING
The groom’s father made and approved choice of the bride. John 10:28, John 17:6
The best man helps prepares details of the future wedding. John 3:39 & Mathew 11:10

THE GROOM’S PROMISE
A. Made a contract or Katturah of promise. Jeremiah 31:31
B. Drink cup of wine to seal the covenant. Jeremiah 31:31, Mathew 26:27-29
C. Groom pays a price; shows he is serious. I Cor. 6:20
D. Groom’s speech of promise to his bride that he would claim her soon. John 14:3

GROOM PREPARES PLACE FOR BRIDE
Groom prepares a bridal chamber where they will stay for seven days. John 14:2
He works on it until it pleases his father. Mark 13:32
After the approval of the father, he is then free to go and get the bride. Acts 1:7

THE BRIDE WAITS
While the groom builds the new home, the bride waits and wears a veil. Matthew 24:44
This shows she belongs only to the groom. 2 Cor. 11:2
She prepares for her wedding by making blankets or wedding garment. One part of this garment is a head piece consisting of ten high value coins. Luke 15:8-9
She also shows gratitude to her family for raising her and mends hurt relationships. Matthew 5:25
No matter what, she had to be ready because he would come at night. I Thess. 5:2

THE BRIDESMAIDS
Unmarried friends attend the bride & provide light for the groom who comes at night. Matthew 25:1-13

THE BRIDEGROOM COMES
The groom’s men Matthew 9:15
would run ahead of the groom and shout that he was coming Matthew 25:6
and announce with the blowing of the Shofar. 1 Thess. 4:16
While the father-of-the-bride’s head is turned Matthew 24:43
the groom would steal the bride by sweeping her off her feet. The wedding party then went back to the groom’s house to meet the guests. (Today the bride circles the groom 13 times symbolizing Joshua’s march around Jericho to bring down the walls.)

THE BRIDAL CHAMBER
The bride and the groom enter the bridal chamber where the marriage is consumated. John 17:21
(Today the huppah or canopy symbolizes the bridal chamber and heaven. Luke 17:34-37)
The party waits outside Mathew 22:4
until the groom tells the best man that it is accomplished. Then the guests rejoice for seven days. (Today the wedding ends with the breaking of the wine glass. This points to this cup as the final cup, the cup that comes after the cup of Redemption; the cup of Praise. Mark 14:25)

MARRIED LIFE BEGINS
New couple goes to father-of-the-groom’s house to begin married life. Revelation 21:2 & 3

Answer 2

Hi Kayne
To our understanding, Father, Son and Spirit are 3 separate entities and yet all are one.
Jesus is not the Father. The trinity is indeed a mystery.
I think as followers, we are asked to have faith that what God says is what is. Jesus was there at the beginning, he was the facilitator of all creation. He is the Son.
In one of the bible studies I just attended 2 weeks ago, we began to share different experiences we had had in the spirit. One of the gentlemen that was there shared that he had had 2 separate visions of heaven, and like the Apostle Paul, he could not explain it. There are no words to describe it. I have had this same experience with both heaven and the trinity concept. As a matter of fact - I don't even like to use the term trinity, because it isn't really what it is. It is One, the Great I AM, Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End. You see, even these words don't really explain the term.
Before I first became a Christian, this was the one thing that I struggled with - because I was being wooed at the time by the Jehovah's Witness, whom you know have a very different view of the Trinity. Then I had my first encounter with the Spirit Himself, but I would say that although I knew it was THE Holy Spirit - it was also God and Jesus.... very difficult to explain in words.
There will always be controversy over it - and there will always be those who say I (we) are crazy.... I can't help that - I only know what I know.

blessings :)

Answer 3

I would agree with Sister Sandy along the line of submission to His Father's will.

In terms of Godhood, God and Jesus are one.

In terms of father-son relationship, God the Father is greater than Jesus the Son.

So I believe that Jesus was speaking that statement in His capacity as a Son, who is obedient to His Father's will perfectly.

Anyway, good question. Have never really thought about that until you asked.

Answer 4

Let me ask you it this way: Jesus said "I and my father are one." He also said, "Nobody knows the day or the hour, but the father." Since he said both of these things, and since he wouldn't knowingly contradict himself, then these two statements can't contradict one another.

So it's simply a matter of defining "oneness with the father" in a way that preserves the will of both the father and the son to conduct their own affairs without the knowledge of the other, while at the same time retaining the idea of their being one God.

So the problem isn't that Jesus contradicted himself, but rather that your understanding of his relationship to the father is insufficient to explain these two statements.

Answer 5

While I am not a Christian, I agree that the non-Trinitarian view of God seems more sensible. You might want to look at the non-Trinitarian versions of Christianity.

I would suggest looking into these Christian churches which are all non-Trinitarian: Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, Bible Students, American Unitarian Conference, Arian Catholic Church, Oneness Pentecostal, UU Christian Fellowship, etc. Swedenborgianism (look up Swedenborg on Wikipedia) was also non-Trinitarian. Perhaps one of these may speak to your condition. You can find all of them doing an online search.

While it is true that LDS Mormons do not believe in the Trinity, they have a doctrine of Godhead and eternal progression which is more polytheistic than monotheistic.

Answer 6

If He is viewed as the Father, then that sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

However, there are many Christian groups who are non-Trinitarian, believing that Jesus Christ is the Creator God, but His Father is the big cheese. They believe that the two are united in purpose and possibly with some sort of shared conscience, but that they are two distinct personages.

I'm in one of those faiths, so I tend to agree with your skepticism.

Answer 7

This is where ideas about the Trinity get sticky and there is no close agreement, even among biblical scholars.

Suffice it to say that this is one of those points of doctrine that are decided upon the personal initiative of one's faith, what speaks most reasonably to one's soul. As an Atheist, it is all academic debate to me, but I remember from my Christian days past that these contemplations were the source of disagreement.

Our church always explained it by stating that Jesus was a distinct manifestation of God--still God, but in such distinct circumstance as to be one with God, yet not the whole of God. It was taught that this distinction was necessary for Jesus to assume the burden of sins of the world; Jesus needs the innocence in order to be presented to God as a blameless sacrifice, as it were, and privy knowledge of God's predestined plan would compromise this.

That, at least, was our church's perspective on the matter.

Answer 8

Jesus is God in the flesh.
Jesus learned everything as a man to overcome temptation sin and death as a man.
The debt was paid by a man under law. God is not a man and is not under law.
God chose to become flesh to pay the penalty of death incurred by man.
Jesus is a part of the whole of God and therfore God.
a drip of water is water none the less.
The penalty of sin is death and this penalty was paid by flesh.
Jesus overcame temptation, sin and death for all who accept the atonement.
The word of God teaches that flesh should be in submission ot the spirit it is the order of God.

Answer 9

Hello there sister
This is truly a verse that could confuse many of us as it concerns the Trinity and the Father Son and Spirit being One.

Whenever the Lord address Himself, He never does so in the position of the " Son of God".. He always addresses Himself as the " Son of Man"
He is both the Son of God and the Son of Man. Whenever Jesus Christ is spoken of as the Son of God it is done by someone else, not He Himself. The Father attested that " this is My Son the Beloved" Even the Demons would only address Him as the Son of God and not as the Son of Man.

The reason I am making references to these titles of the Lord is because He made this statement in the Position of " The Son of Man"..
I'll post the verses
Matthew 24:36-37
But concerning the day and hour,no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens no the Son, but the Father only.
For just as the days of Noah were, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

As the " Son of Man" the Lord Jesus did not know the day nor the hour of His return. As the Son of Man He submitted totally to the Father where He spoke and revealed only what the Father wanted Him to reveal and address at that point in time.

This statement by the Lord was not meant to question His oneness with the Father but rather it showed that as the Son of Man, He submits and limits Himself to the Will of the Father... such a pattern to us today.

Here is a really cool verse in closing sister
Matthew 11:27
" All things have been delivered to Me by My Father and no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and him to whom th Son wills to reveal Him"

As the Son of God, He knows ALL... In His incarnation and as the Son of Man He poured out all that He was in His position as God in order to carry out the Will, Purpose, Deeds and Words of the Father by the Spirit. He is and always will be One with the Father. He will always be the " Eternal Father and Mighty God"..... yet He became a little lesser than the angels, His own creation in order to redeem us all.
wow.

Great Question sister
Yours in Christ
sandy

EDIT.
Brother Jimmy:)
Ty for your support
I just wanted to touch this point regarding what you said about the Father being Over the Son.
In the Divine Trinity... the only time that the Father is over the Son is in their status as God and Christ. This is concerning God's Administration.
As " Christ" He is God's anointed One appointed by God,hence God as the Originator is His Head. This has everything to do with God's divine Governmental order. As the Son though.. He is the Eternal Father. Hehe.. I tell you brother Jimmy . its complex but yet.. Our God is experencial. Here is a good verse that you know....

1 Cor 11:3
" But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ"

In the statuses of Father and Son they are completely ONE.
The trinity is simple in His Essence... but in terms of His function He is complicated.
How He carries out His divine Purpose with man is very very complicated.

Answer 10

This would seem to be a contradiction, but it is not. You have to consider that if the end time was known then why believe until the near end. Please consider Jesus' role while on earth, he was half God and half man, he referred to Himself as the Son of Man also.