Question to MUSTAFA (and any Muslim:) Re: Who holds Muslim men accountable for following the Quran?

Question

As-Salaam Alaikum.

Greetings,

I hope that this day finds you doing well. I wanted to ask you about what you said on the thread referenced on the above question line (I'm not a member of any organized religion, but I have studied about different religions.)

I was entrigued with how you answered this question ("They are accountable to God. If they do not obey the Quran in the matter of protecting an opressed woman, then God's curse falls upon the men or the community. Then someone who is a good human being should try to help, even if he / she is not a Muslim.")

I have read the Qur'an multiple times and though I do primarily read the Maulana Muhammad Ali translation, I was wondering what Qur'anic scripture are you referring to in your statement. Which scripture is that?

If you aren't Mustafa but you know what scripture he was referring to would you please tell me. Thank you very much to all who answer.

As-Salaam Alaikum.

To Doraemorn, "Allah forbids you not respecting those who fight you not for religion, nor drive you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly. Surely Allah loves the doers of justice." Holy Qur'an 60:8

I wont spend the time to check your references, but the hadith are not scripture. I don't know if any of your references actually say what you are alleging, but as we see from the Muslims *scripture,* Muslims are enjoined to fight only against those who *initiate* conflict with them.

You should be more careful of taking things out of context.

To shaybani_yusuf, the hadith are not scripture. "Scripture" means Allah's (God's) Word. The hadith are a collection of *men's* historical reports.

To wisdomsteeth & milomax, thanks for answering/contributing.

I just want to advise you that Islam as I learned it forbids wife-beating. There are many sources for learning about Islam these days, but I don't think all of them are trustworthy.

I also wanted to tell you that there is actually a science about translating Arabic, and all translations of the Holy Qur'an do not say the same thing. Where one translation allegedly says "beat," another says "chastise," which, obviously, does not necessarily mean physical punishment. The way I learned Islam, again, wife-beating is wrong and any Muslim who beats his wife should not do that.

To hayaa_bi_taqwa, greetings, I would love to hear your comments on this:

On Sura 4:34 I think that the words "and because they support them from their means" indicates that this verse in talking about husbands and wives specifically and not all men and all women.

Islam as I learned it teaches dependence on Allah and self. The case of a husband and wife is unique but that is related specifically to *marriage.*

On the rest of those cited scriptures, the Yusuf Ali translation allegedly says that wife-beating is OK, so I don't have that much regard for his translation, "The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an." How could he say you have a duty to protect the weak and beat your wife, at the same time?

Sadly the Muslim community is disunited and fighting among themselves. I think the whole world would benefit from a united Muslim community.

To hayaa_bi_taqwa 2,

Yes Ma'am. We might disagree but we don't have to be disagreeable. Mr. Yusuf Ali's translation will not get my respect if it translates that Muslims should beat their wives in ANY way but you're right that Muslims spend to much time fighting each other. They should unite and put their differences to the side for the time being.

On Sura 8:73 ma'am, the full context of the part that you quoted gives quite a different picture than it gives out of it's context. Sura 8:72: "As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile..."

May Allah Bless you. I am still not a member of an organized religion but I do acknoweldge Allah as a name of the one God and respect the various religious customs. As-Salaam Alaikum

Answer 1

Hello Lee! I'm not sure which verse Mustafa could be referring to, but many verses in the Quran say that the men are the protectors of women, and that it's a Muslim's duty to strive for justice, even if it is against your own family. Now, given that the Quran holds an extremely high regard for family and commands followers to obey and respect them, you can see just how important justice is if it (Quran) is saying to stand for justice even if it's against your family...
So it's okay to come to the conclusion that since Islam stands for justice, and that women should be protected, then it is every Muslim man's duty to protect an oppressed woman, and I agree that it's pretty much a humanitarian instinct for anyone to stand up for oppressed women whether or not they are Muslim.
I don't have any of the verses right off, but I'll do a quick search and post them for you.

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Here are the Yusuf Ali translations.
4:34 "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means..."

4:58 "Allah doth command you to render back your Trusts to those to whom they are due; And when ye judge between man and man, that ye judge with justice: Verily how excellent is the teaching which He giveth you! For Allah is He Who heareth and seeth all things."

4:127 "... as also concerning the children who are weak and oppressed: that ye stand firm for justice to orphans. There is not a good deed which ye do, but Allah is well-acquainted therewith." (not specified towards women, but still an example of justice)

4:135 "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do."

5:8 "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do."

6:151 "...Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom." (again, a specified form of justice, but still an example)

7:29 Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."

21:47 "We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account."

38:26 "O David! We did indeed make thee a vicegerent on earth: so judge thou between men in truth (and justice): Nor follow thou the lusts (of thy heart), for they will mislead thee from the Path of Allah..."

49:9 "If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies then make peace between them with justice and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just)."

55:9 "So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance."

2:193 "And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

2:191 "...and drive them away from wherever they drove you away - for oppression is even worse than killing..."

Btw: I had the Muhammad Ali traslation also and came across an article that said he was a translator who was not a Muslim. I'm not sure about the accuracy of the article, or if his translation is a correct one, so I went to the mosque and got a Yusuf Ali translation (actually I went to buy it and they gave it to me no charge :-D
Don't want to worry you or make you think poorly of this man, as he may well be a devout Muslim good in his deen, and maybe he has an excellent translation, but I take the side of caution on this one. There have been reports of translations by non-Muslim org's with intent on misleading the people who read them. I'd rather be cautious than misled!
Anyways, hope this helps!

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Hello again Lee. Well, I see your point but I don't agree. Men support women (by sustenance) in a marriage (of course) as well as outside of marriage. Of course the family is the main focus of financial support, but that support isn't for the family alone. Sons are responsible to support their parents and siblings (and other relatives) in times of need as well, Muslims are supposed to support orphans, and zakat and sadaqah for the needy. Keep in mind, Islam isn't just a guide for the self or the family, but for society as well. Everyone (man or woman) has duties to his/her God, his/her soul or spiritual self, his/her family, and his/her society. I can almost guarantee you that if all Muslims responded to the commandment of zakat and sadaqah like they should, the Middle East would be a well-developed part of the world. Much like where they were headed during the Islamic empire in its heightened stages.

I see your point abt the translation also. I think it was more on a part of trying to translate the word, and spank was the best he could come up with. Although he does have a footnote that says:
"In case of family jars four steps are mentioned, to be taken in that order...3) if this is not sufficient, some slight physical correction may be administered; but Imam Shafi'i considers this inadvisable, though permissible, and all authorities are unanimous in deprecating any sort of cruelty, even of the nagging kind..."
And there are guidelines as to what exactly is permissible and what is not: http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_301_350/wife_beating.htm
Although for men who don't bother themselves with learning the details of their religion, they may be inclined to accept this verse to mean it's okay to beat you wife in any sort of manner, unfortunately.

I agree that the ummah is very disunited at the moment. We're in a very poor state and it seems like we're too busy arguing with each other about this and that and ignoring the needs of the Muslim ummah. Allah says in the Quran: 8:73 "The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief." Take a good look at Iraq, Afghanistan/Pakistan, and Palestine/Lebanon and you can say it's happening right now as we speak.

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Man my answer's getting long! Lol!

And I'm so glad you're on your toes about these things. Most people either don't bother researching or just take whatever others say as true, which I guess are the same things anyways. It's really refreshing to see others who do their research! :-D

Quran 8:72 says: "BEHOLD, as for those who have attained to faith, and who have forsaken the domain of evil and are striving hard, with their possessions and their lives, in God's cause, as well as those who shelter and succour [them] - these are [truly] the friends and protectors of one another. But as for those who have come to believe without having migrated [to your country] - you are in no wise responsible for their protection until such a time as they migrate [to you]. Yet, if they ask you for succour against religious persecution, it is your duty to give [them] this succour-except against a people between whom and yourselves there is a covenant: for God sees all that you do."
Still the same.

Oh, while I'm thinking of it: I pretty much always use http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ while I'm online. It's so convenient! You can search by sura, by sura and ayah, by topic, word search, you get three different English translations as well as a few other languages, you get the Arabic script, the translitteration, and you can hear the verse by three different recitations. Just in case you're in the market...

Answer 2

The Quran isnt the only Muslim scripture -in any case the Quran condemns oppressors and tyrants to hell

Their are many sayings of the Prophet that would apply here

Prophet Muhammad (blessings and peace be upon him)

"Help your brother whether he is an oppressor or an oppressed," A man said, "O Allah's Apostle! I will help him if he is oppressed, but if he is an oppressor, how shall I help him?" The Prophet said, "By preventing him from oppressing (others), for that is how to help him."


Dua (supplication) of the oppressed:

Allah promises to answer the dua of an oppressed person. The Prophet (SalAllahu 'alaihi wassallam) said: "Be afraid of the prayer of an oppressed person as there is no screen between their invocation and Allah." (Al-Bukhari)

Allah gives an oath by His Majesty and Honor that anyone who is oppressed and invokes Him, He will grant him victory. There are three people who Allah will never reject their prayer. They are:
1) a just leader
2) a fasting person
3) someone who is oppressed

There lived a group of leaders in the Arabian Peninsula known as Barak. Though they were Muslims, they oppressed others and seized the wealth of people. The people living in the area continually made dua against the oppressive leaders. Eventually, the cruel leaders were apprehended. Once they were captured, one of the sons asked his father how they were able to be imprisoned. The father replied that it must have been by the prayer of someone who was oppressed, and therefore, Allah granted him his invocation.

Allah says in the Quran:
"When people forget and transgress their boundaries, we let them do what they want. When they feel proud that which they got, we take them swiftly, we annihilate the oppressors and praise be to Allah."

The Prophet (SalAllahu 'alaihi wassallam) said:

"There are two categories that I will not give intercession to on the Judgment Day. The leader who is oppressive (and the man is the leader of the house) and the other is one who is an extremist."

The Prophet also made a prayer against wife beaters.

In sharia a woman can divorce her husband if he is physically abusive

Answer 3

They are accountable to God. If they do not obey the Quran in the matter of protecting an opressed woman, then God's curse falls upon the men or the community. Then someone who is a good human being should try to help, even if he / she is not a Muslim.

Answer 4

Well islam is the safest place for women,..... than any other religion.. A man cant beat his wife until and unless she committed adultery... or have an affair with someone else... Women should be treated like queens in islam... more over its womens desire if she wants to help her husband out in the household chores... Dont have any misconception about the religion...... And for the answer I dont know from which part he is talking from that just a made up......

Answer 5

No

Answer 6

It would be absurd to infer that only muslim men oppress women. Christian women smother their men also along with their muslime counterparts...and christian man behaves in no better a way, when alluding to varying degrees of christian / muslim, ie orthodox, practising, fanatical, closet, anti...etc etc....Be Loved...

Answer 7

To Kool Dude:

"A man cant beat his wife until and unless she committed adultery."

It would seem to me that if in Islam, a man is allowed to beat his wife *at all,* it is not a safe "place" for her.

Answer 8

Muslim wives with scimitars and shotguns