How do Jews overcome Christian & Muslim claims God has abandoned the Jewish people?

Question

Christians teach that Jesus eliminated basically all the old Jewish laws (eg. trinitarian (polytheist?)-monotheism, idolatry, how sabath should be observed; dietary laws; sacrifices etc.) because God wanted to spread God's message to the whole world, no longer to just one group.

Muslims have told me God got tired of the Jews continually rebelling against God (they'd revere a prophoet, then later forget, then revere the next prophet who reminded them of God's word but ultimately forget), so he handed His final message to the Arabs.

How many Jews question whether God changed his mind and abandoned them as the Christians and Muslims claim?

- I find it interesting when Christians say God hasn't abandoned the Jews. Christianity was the first major religion to say anyone who doeesn't believe in what Christians believe (and the Jews were the first reject what Christians believe) will go to eternal hell torture. That, in my view, is abandonment. The Christian counter-argument that God doesn't abandon anyone, it's people who do it (like Jews who abandon God by rejecting Jesus) means you have to abandon being a Jew. From my reading of the old testament, you can't be a 'Jew' and eat pork, be uncircumcised, depict pictures of heaven or say God can be 'divided'

Answer 1

I'll give you the "short" answer, and if you want the long version, feel free to contact me:

Okay, so a few thousand years ago, the Jews received the Torah at the foot of Mt. Sinai in a mass revelation (between two and three million people). Never again has so huge and irrefutable miracle taken place - that's why subsequent monotheistic and quasi-monotheistic religions consider it part of the foundations of their own faiths, because it's so solid, and because they can't reproduce it. Notice that all the revelations of subsequent religions were made to individuals, with small groups of disciples. It's much more practical to maintain unity that way than to get three million people to agree that they all heard the voice of G-d, and to teach this to their children, who would teach it to their children, until the end of time.

Okay, so we Jews had our Torah, and that was good enough for us. Included in the Torah were numerous warnings against any prophets or dreamers who might come along and add to, subtract from, or attempt to replace our Torah. Says G-d, this is just a test to see if we really love Him enough to not be swayed from the path he laid before us. Then comes Christianity, more a product of Paul of Tarsus than of Jesus himself, and it assumes to "eliminate basically all the old Jewish laws" to borrow your phrase, in favor of a new set of teachings, partially inspired by, but in contradiction to, the Torah we were already given. Notice that Christianity doesn't dispute the divine nature of the Torah. The Torah, and indeed the entire Hebrew Bible (which they call the "Old Testament") is part and parcel of their tradition, and the source for the whole idea of the messiah (which of course they have twisted beyond recognition, but I digress), so they have to accept it. Rather, they teach that G-d changed His mind, and now we have a new set of scriptures that take precedence over the first.

Six hundred years later, the Muslims show up, saying that the Jews and Christians were right originally, but that they corrupted their own scriptures, hence necessitating the ultimate revelation, that of the Qur'an. Bear in mind that Jews had been passing down the same Torah, parent to child, for a couple thousand years at this point, before Muhammad shows up and presents us with a version of our own history, muddled and confused, and tells us how we don't know our own scriptures (which of course is a common technique among Christian missionaries today, but again, I digress).

The bottom line is this: Christianity claims that the Torah was true, but the laws have been nullified in light of their revelation. Islam claims that the Torah was true, but Jews screwed it up. Meanwhile, the Torah itself says that it is true forever, and that we are absolutely forbidden from changing even the smallest detail. The one thing all these groups share in common is that they all believe that the Torah was true when it was given. But the Torah itself says that it is forever, and to disregard contradictory "revelations". And for us Jews, that's enough to overcome any claims that our G-d has left us. He promised us that He never would, and we believe Him. That's what makes us Jewish.

I hope this helps clear things up.

Answer 2

God did NOT cast away the Jewish people - Just read Romans 11
Paul writes "I say then,God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
What you are hearing is called 'replacement theology' It isn't biblical. This only comes from a minority of misinformed and uneducated people that call themselves Christians. There are Christians and then there are church goers. We must leave the goats among the sheep until Jesus sends His angels to separate them.
As for the Muslims there all wrong- they think that they are descendants or Ishmael that they are Gods chosen people --Don't you believe it!!! They are from the descendant of a mans actions and not what God had planned. Ishmael's mother was Hagar- Sarah's maid servant. So he is not the promised child to Abraham from God.
The Jews are still Gods chosen people.
God bless you and keep you! Jesus came for the Jew first., and He is coming back for you again, all my love. Amen
I'm a Jew loving Prodestant. May the Lord bless those who blessyou and curse those who curse you.
Dear grassfel, Please just read the New Testament.Jesus is a Jew , the first believers were Jewish-the reason that the sanheadren (even though many of them were believers) wouldn't accept Jesus was because they were affraid of the Roman army. They owned their own homes, had herds and flocks, they were wealthy. If they would have admitted Jesus was Lord -they would have lost EVERYTHING-even their lives. Try to understand the siduation that they were in. They loved their families and didn't want them murdered. This was Gods will , and ALL will see in due time. God bless.
ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

Answer 3

Christianity does not teach that God has abandoned the Jewish people. There are some so-called Christian theologians who believe this, but this is an error. I am not Jewish, but if I was, I would find the statement that God abandoned me to be laughable, because Jewish people know this is ridiculous. I have not heard about what the Muslims believe in this respect, so I can't answer that part.

Answer 4

this is quite simple really. as so much of it, which is ironic in its own right.

Judaism never claims to be the only correct way. its one way. not the only way. so the relative assertion of "now God wants it spread to everyone" doesn't "work", ... it was never exclusive. and when the Messiah and messianic age DOES come, generally its seen that the Jewish people will be the ministers for the world, that we will be the ones who teach the rest of the world how to know God sas we have for thousands of years.

we have no concern about their beliefs about it. I mean, God made a covenant with us. God will hold up his end of the bargain, forever, that is part of the nature of God to forgive and stick to his bargain.

when this is known, why would it be a concern that some outside group says OUR God, which OUR ancestors(even converts, are adopted such and take the jewish ancestors as their own, even if its not a blood issue for them) have been following for so long, says he did things that are contrary to what we know his nature to be?

I would say that its a matter of very rudimentary "faith" that God has kept his end of the deal.

personally I figure as a "last resort" in that if God did indeed do that... then hes wasn't as thought, and lied on other things and generally was not worthy of worship anyway.
why would I have interest in a God so petty and fickle to give up like that? who would lie and betray his promises and not hold up his bargain?

Answer 5

Good question :)

I've heard these remarks from numerous Christians, slightly fewer Muslims. I find it both amusing and frustrating that some Christians apparently devote a hell of a lot of energy towards trying to discredit Judaism.

The biggest issue at the moment, though, is the way some Christians call themselves 'messianic jews' or 'completed jews' or 'christian jews' or 'fulfilled jews'. They then have the audacity to speak on behalf of Judaism - when they are not Jewish. I've seen them on this very website, misrepresenting Judaism quite happily.

On three occasions, when people asked genuine questions about Judaism, three of these 'messianics' gave them links which they claimed would 'teach you about Judaism'.

I checked all three links - all three led to CHRISTIAN MINISTRIES.

I find this far more troubling than Christians who openly express a negative view of my religion. At least they are being honest. 'messianics' are not - they are Christian yet try to kid the world ,and themselves, that they are somehow 'jewish' as well.

And worse, they perpetuate a negative view of Jews by insisting that by failing to 'understand' that yes, we can be jewish and accept Jesus, we are being somehow 'narrow minded, and 'misguided'.

The fact is: nobody can be both Jewish AND Christian. Just as you can't be both Muslim and Catholic.

'messianic jew' = Christian.

Answer 6

I have adhered to Christian belief since childhood, and this is the first that I have heard that Christians claim that God has abandoned the Jewish people. Jesus did not eliminate Jewish law, but fulfilled it. The Law of Moses served as the foundation for teaching people how to approach and to serve God, how to treat one another, and how to preserve life and health. Jesus condensed the entire Law and all that the OT prophets taught into: Love God, love others, love yourself. If our actions demonstrate the love of God (agape), we won't murder, we won't be unfaithful to our marriage partner, and we won't steal from one another, for example.

While Jesus reached out to include all of humankind, I see no evidence that indicates that he has abandoned the Jewish people. Far from it! Embracing we non-Jewish folks in no way negates his long-standing relationship with those who are Jewish.

Answer 7

If I were Jewish, I would ignore such claims as nonsense.

As for what some Christians and some Muslims might say--consider the source. Both groups have agendas, and the sort of people who would claim that God would abandon anyone are pretty obviously bigots or, at best, not very knowledgeable about those religions' teachings..

Answer 8

Excuse me. I am a Christian who knows the bible. Christians do not say that God has abandoned His people. The bible teaches that God will deal with Israel once again, when the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.

Please get your facts straight before claiming things like this.

Answer 9

I think I will let Mark Twain answer this question for me.

"...If statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky way. properly, the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and had done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.

The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed; and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other people have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"


--This was written 100 years ago, but it could have very well been written today, or even 200 years ago. All I need is history to put such claims in their proper place.--

Answer 10

It is all the same. It is stupid to say Christians have 3 gods. Christians have 3 NAMES for God - doesn't mean they have 3 gods... ... We have 99 NAMES for Allah - doesn't mean we have 99 gods.