Catholics and protestants where would Matthew 23:9-10 apply to your church?

Question

Matthew 23:9-10
. . .Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.

I figured. If I said why don't your church obey Matthew 23:9-10 I would of had a load of answers saying all sorts to circumnavigate. Ask where it does APPLY the scripture and everyone is dumbfounded.

cristoiglesia, that was a load of drivel.

Please truth can be concise and accurate without distracting from the question asked.

Answer 1

Matthew 23:6-9 reads, "They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.' As for you, do not be called 'Rabbi.' You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven."

Are we also not to call anyone "teacher" or "doctor" which is how "rabbi' would translate? I think not.

This is call for humility for those in leadership roles. Not to be taken literally.

We are not to deny our male parent and cut the Commandment to honor our father and mother in half.

Some leaders in any church may fall into the same folly of a lack of humility as the pharisees of Jesus' day.

The Apostle Paul writes:

I am writing you this not to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. Even if you should have countless guides to Christ, yet you do not have many fathers, for I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. (1 Corinthians 4:14-15)

And:

As you know, we treated each one of you as a father treats his children, exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory. (1 Thessalonians 2:11-12)

And:

I urge you on behalf of my child Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment, who was once useless to you but is now useful to (both) you and me. (Philemon 10-11)

And finally, Peter calls himself the "father" of Mark:

The chosen one at Babylon sends you greeting, as does Mark, my son. (1 Peter 5:13)

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about Spiritual leaders. He meant do not call Spiritual leaders "Father".

†

Answer 3

From the early Church we find that clergy were addressed as father. There are those with little knowledge of history or hermeneutical discipline such as understanding Scriptures within context, who believe that the Bible prohibits one from calling a priest father. The words they rely on come directly from Christ:

(Mat 23:9 DRB) And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

Keeping the verse in context let us look at the verse preceding this verse:

(Mat 23:8 DRB) But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.

Rabbi means teacher and the Latin word for teacher is doctor so anyone using these terms as well are violating the literal interpretation of the text.

Let us look at the verse after verse 9:

(Mat 23:10 DRB) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.

There is no way that the interpretation could be correct if one reads and understands the Matthew passage in context. He is clearly teaching that one should not look to any human authority as our teacher, father, master, doctor or other titles of respect but instead give to God those things that are reserved for Him. Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding.

Context also requires that we investigate what the other Scriptures say as well as the understanding of these words by those who followed Christ. There are many instances where the writers of the New Testament contradict a literal understanding of not calling a man father, teacher or master. Consider the following verses:

(Act 5:34 DRB) But one in the council rising up, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, respected by all the people, commanded the men to be put forth a little while.

(Col 4:1 DRB) Masters, do to your servants that which is just and equal: knowing that you also have a master in heaven.

(2Ti 1:11 DRB) Wherein I am appointed a preacher and an apostle and teacher of the Gentiles.

Let us examine the statements of St. Stephen to see if he understood Christ to be speaking literally….In is soliloquy (Acts Chapter 7) before the Sanhedrin before his stoning to martyrdom he used the term father in referring to Abraham Isaac and Jacob as fathers and also to his Israelite ancestors as fathers.

St. John the beloved disciple also did not understand Christ to be teaching literally as we can see in the following verses:

(1Jn 2:13 DRB) I write unto you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:14 DRB) I write unto you, babes, because you have known the Father. I write unto you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and you have overcome the wicked one.

(1Jn 2:15 DRB) Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him.

(1Jn 2:16 DRB) For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life, which is not of the Father but is of the world.

St. Paul also had a different understanding of Christ’s words than the literalists:

(1Co 4:14 DRB) I write not these things to confound you: but I admonish you as my dearest children.

(1Co 4:15 DRB) For if you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers. For in Christ Jesus, by the gospel, I have begotten you.

(1Co 4:16 DRB) Wherefore, I beseech you, be ye followers of me as I also am of Christ.

St. Paul was speaking of the fact that he is called to shepherd the flock as are all priests. We not only give birth to the Christian through Baptism but also nourish the faithful with the Holy Eucharist and God’s Word. We care for them and bind their spiritual wounds through the delivery of the Sacraments. It is no wonder that we are called father as we care for our Church family as a father cares for his own family.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Everything of the Spirit is drivel to the reprobate heart. May the Lord have mercy.

Answer 4

It's amazing how many people have such a problem obeying a simple directive. So many clergymen feel what Jesus said does NOT apply to them. Are they correct.?

It would be good to read and note the context of Matthew 23:1-12. Jesus begins speaking about the Pharisees, who were a prominent sect of Judaism. They were legalists, sticklers for observance of every detail of the Mosaic Law. They liked to dress and act in such a way as to call attention to themselves. Their religion was one of ostentation—their style of clothing, their principal places at meals, their front seats in the synagogues, and their titles of honor. They even claimed greater respect than that which was given parents. They wanted to be called father. However, Jesus shows that all his followers are equal as God’s children. Any title that suggests the opposite is a haughty usurpation of something that belongs to God. Thus, Jesus forbids the use of the word “father” as a title of honor in a religious sense. Jesus insists that his followers have only one Father in the faith, Jehovah.

To justify using the title "father," clergymen point to Paul's words at 1 Tim. 4:15: "For though you may have ten thousand tutors in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have become your father through the good news."

Paul was not using the term “father” as a title, but as an illustration. He was using the earthly relationship in the human family to show the true picture of his position relative to the Corinthian Christians. Nowhere is he addressed as Father Paul. Peter referred to him as “our beloved brother Paul”. (2 Pet. 3:15) None of the apostles were ever addressed with the title Father. For them to be so addressed by others would have violated Jesus’ command: “Do not call anyone your father on earth, for One is your Father, the heavenly One.” The context shows he was objecting to flattering titles. (Job 32:21, 22; Matt. 23:6-12) Hence Paul’s use of the illustration “father” to accurately portray his relationship to Christian congregations and individuals, and not as a creature-exalting title, was no violation of Matthew 23:9.

Mr. Joseph below is a classic example of one who tries to justify his title as "Father." He says: "Do you also refuse to call people doctor, teacher, professor, mister, or master? All of these are forbidden as well if we are to accept a literal understanding."

Is his reasoning correct? No. In the context (surrounding verses) of Matt. 23:9, Jesus was NOT saying that his followers could not call their male parent "father." Instead, he was telling them not to address one another as "father" in a religious sense like the Pharisees were doing. The same thing applied to "leader" and "Rabbi." Mr. Joseph refuses to see that because he likes to be addressed as "Father."

Is it right to call your physician "Doctor"? Yes. Is it right to call a clergyman "Doctor" as a religious title? No.

Look below at the scriptures that Spiritroaming listed and see if you can find ONE verse where Paul or Timothy or Peter or any of Jesus' faithful followers was addressed as "Father." You won't find it anywhere!

Answer 5

Did your father come for Christmas?

Answer 6

just what it means
Christ is the head of the church period
We are also all called for a purpose, that is recorded too.

Answer 7

But in the Bible the concept of fatherhood is not restricted to just our earthly fathers and God. It is used to refer to people other than biological or legal fathers, and is used as a sign of respect to those with whom we have a special relationship.

For example, Joseph tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him with the king of Egypt: "So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:8).

Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: "I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know" (Job 29:16). And God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: "In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah" (Is. 22:20–21).

This type of fatherhood not only applies to those who are wise counselors (like Joseph) or benefactors (like Job) or both (like Eliakim), it also applies to those who have a fatherly spiritual relationship with one. For example, Elisha cries, "My father, my father!" to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).

the imperative "call no man father" does not apply to one’s biological father. It also doesn’t exclude calling one’s ancestors "father," as is shown in Acts 7:2, where Stephen refers to "our father Abraham," or in Romans 9:10, where Paul speaks of "our father Isaac."

Second, there are numerous examples in the New Testament of the term "father" being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker. There are, in fact, so many uses of "father" in the New Testament, that the Fundamentalist interpretation of Matthew 23 (and the objection to Catholics calling priests "father") must be wrong.

Fundamentalists themselves slip up on this point by calling all sorts of people "doctor," for example, medical doctors, as well as professors and scientists who have Ph.D. degrees (i.e., doctorates). What they fail to realize is that "doctor" is simply the Latin word for "teacher." Even "Mister" and "Mistress" ("Mrs.") are forms of the word "master," also mentioned by Jesus. So if his words in Matthew 23 were meant to be taken literally, Fundamentalists would be just as guilty for using the word "teacher" and "doctor" and "mister" as Catholics for saying "father." But clearly, that would be a misunderstanding of Christ’s words.

Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige.

But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18); "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1);

"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)

"I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10).

None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

"I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

You just don't WANT the answer - as evidenced by your response to another poster who answered you thoroughly.

Answer 8

He did answer your question, and it was not drivel. Your premise is in error.

Answer 9

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Your statement assumes only answers can be dishonest. Questions can be dishonest/misleading/suggestive as well.

If you want to understand the True meaning of Biblical teachings, such as Matthew 23:9-10, you have to consider it in context with other Biblical passages that teach the same Truth.

The Elders of the Church are Called "Fathers" and the Faithful "Children"
Matt. 23:9 - Jesus says, "call no man father." But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests "father." This is an example of "eisegesis" (imposing one's views upon a passage) as opposed to "exegesis" (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 - priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means "communicating one's nature," and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.

Eph. 3:14-15 - every family in heaven and on earth is named from the "Father." We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 - elders of the Church are called "fathers." Therefore, we should ask the question, "Why don't Protestants call their pastors "father?"

1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, "I became your father in Christ Jesus."

1 Cor. 4:17 - Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful "child" in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 - Paul describes his role as parent over his "children" the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy's service to him as a son serves a "father."

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders' ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true "child" in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 - Paul calls Titus his true "child" in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the "father" of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 - emphasizes our earthly "fathers." But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his "son."

1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church "fathers."

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church "children."

1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their "father."

The Lord, Mary, the Apostles and Others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as "Fathers"
Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8 - Jesus refers to Abraham as our "father."

Mark 11:10 - the people cried out blessed is the kingdom of our "father" David that is coming!

Luke 1:32 - God's angel says Jesus will be great and be given the throne of his "father" David.

Luke 1:55 - Mary says that He spoke to our "fathers," to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.

Luke 1:73 - Zechariah says the oath which he swore to our "father" Abraham.

Luke 16:24,30 - Jesus, in His parable about the rich man, says our "father" Abraham.

John 4:12 - the Samaritan woman asks Jesus if He is greater than our "father" Jacob.

John 7:22 - Jesus refers to the "fathers" who gave the Jews the practice of circumcision.

John 8:56 - Jesus tells the Jews your "Father" Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day.

Acts 3:13,25; 5:30 - Peter teaches that the God of our "fathers" glorified His servant Jesus and raised Him to life.

Acts 4:25 - Peter and John pray to God and refer to our "father" David.

Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 - Stephen refers to our "fathers" in the faith.

Acts 7:32 - Stephen calls God the God of our "fathers."

Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25 - Paul also refers to the God of our "fathers" in the faith.

Acts 22:3 - Paul says he was educated according to the strict law of our "fathers."

Acts 22:14 - Ananias says the God of our "fathers."

Rom. 4:1 - Paul calls Abraham our "forefather."

Rom. 4:16-17 - Paul says that Abraham is the "father" of us all and the "father" of many nations.

Rom. 9:10 - Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our "forefather."

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul says that our "fathers" were all under the cloud, referring to the Old Testament spiritual leaders.

Gal. 1:14 - Paul says that he was zealous for the tradition of his "fathers."

2 Tim. 1:3 - Paul thanks God whom he serves with a clear conscience as did his "fathers" in faith.

Heb. 1:1 - the author says God spoke of old to our "fathers."

Heb. 3:9 - the Holy Spirit says that your "fathers" put me to the test.

Heb. 8:9 - God says not like the covenant that I made with their "fathers."

James 2:21 - James says was not our "father" Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac?

1 Peter 1:18 - Peter says you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your "fathers."

2 Peter 3:4 - Peter says ever since the "fathers" fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning.

Other Examples Where Jesus Uses the Word "Father" When Teaching
Matt. 15:4-5; 19:19 - Jesus uses "father" when He teaches God's commandment to "Honor your father and your mother."

Mark 7:10-12; Luke 18:20 - these are more examples of Jesus using "father" when teaching about honoring our fathers and mothers.

Eph. 6:2,4 - Paul also teaches to honor your "father" and mother, and says "fathers," do not provoke your children.

Matt. 10:21; 35,37; Mark 13:12 - Jesus says "father" will deliver up his child in the last days.

Matt. 19:5; Mark 10:7,19 - Jesus says a man shall leave his "father" and mother and be joined to his wife. See also Eph. 5:31.

Matt. 19:29; Mark 10:29-30 - Jesus says whoever has left mother or "father" for His sake shall receive a hundredfold.

Matt. 21:31 - Jesus uses "father" when he teaches about the parable of the two sons and asks, "who did the will of his "father?"

Luke 6:23,26 - Jesus speaks about reward and punishment with reference to what their "fathers" did to the prophets.

Luke 11:11 - Jesus says what "father" among you will give his child a serpent when he asks for a fish.

Luke 11:47-48 - Jesus tells the lawyers they are witnesses to the deeds of their "fathers."

Luke 14:26 - Jesus says we must leave our "fathers" and mothers and come to him, or we cannot be His disciple.

Luke 15:12,17-18,20-22,27-29 - Jesus repeatedly uses "father" when teaching about the prodigal son.

Luke 16:27 - Jesus uses "father" when teaching about the rich man in purgatory.

John 6:49,58 - Jesus says your "fathers" ate the manna in the wilderness and died.

Answer 10

we hope that you can grasp this concept "MERRY CHRISTMAS"