Presbyterian Church says "debtors" and prayer of confession, big bread chunks?

Question

I went to a small town Presbyterian Church on Christmas Eve.

When it came time to say the Lord's Prayer, I said, "forgive us our trespasses," because that is what Methodist people say.

But, they said something like, "debts" and debtors in the prayer instead.

Why do they say this?

Also, they said a prayer of confession and the minister said, you all are forgiven through the glory of Jesus.

I thought Presbyterians think only certain people get to heaven though, like predestination.

These people did not seem to believe that way though, which was nice and inclusive (just so you are sorry and ask for forgiveness, you're okay).

Also, we had communion and I think they said it was the bread of heaven and gave me enough of a big chunk to have a small snack, dipped in wine.

Why is it this way?

I enjoyed the service and it was beautiful, but I wondered about these differences.

Answer 1

Presbyterians DO NOT believe in predestination. In fact, they are very close to Methodist's in their beliefs.
The difference between Trespasses and Debtors ----
In the original English translation of the prayer from Mathew 6:12, they used trespass --- a later (or considered more modern) translation, changed it to debtors. The meaning is the same
Forgive us our sins
Forgive us our trespasses
Forgive us our debts
All meaning (sins toward God)

No - not meaning someone trespasses onto our property or someone owes us a debt (money).

The Presbyterian church asks that you accept and acknowledge Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
Understand that good works alone do not save you, but belief that Christ has died for our sins, and is our path to the Father (God).
I'm not preaching here - just telling what I understand - and accept.
Merry Christmas !!

Answer 2

First I am Orthodox but I think I can answer some of the questions- I will state the Orthodox view. I believe it is important that I talk about our views- please don't give me a thumbs down. 1. I don't know to much about the Catholic view- the concept of transsubstiantion has some medieval philosophies about it but the Eucherest is the body and blood of Christ as well as bread and wine on the grounds Christ said it was so- the bread of life and in the last supper only one version has the in remeberence part so the body and blood is key. 2.) 1 Corinthians 15:55 Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?" There is no diffence between asking those who live with the Lord and those who are in this world. The word pray originaly simply meant to ask - the early modern phrase pray tell. 3.) James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray ... Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The concept of a mortal sin is not found in the Orthodox church from my understanding there the Catholics interpret some verses as being a list of mortal sins- for us in the Orthodox Church confession is simply an aide in living a more Christ like life. Since any sin seperates us from God and I would state that some one who commits a "serious sin" like murder had some issues they didn't touch early enough. 4.) This is an issue of the Schism. The Church was originally devided into several patriarchates- (the Orthodox Church still is) each one was equal with a primacy of honor- which means a senior bishop can call and preside over councils and services when more than one Bishop is present but no single Bishop has infallible authority that is the Church's colelctivly and the Holy spirit steps in as needed how is God's choice. In the west when the Western Roman Empire fell the Papacy rose to power. 5.) I don't understand the immaculate conception either- that is an issue that arose latter. The Catholic's have this idea that Mary needed to be free of original sin- in the Orthodox church we do believe that Mary was the purest woman to ever live but like all of us was born with the infliction of original sin- Christ who is God would by that fact be free.

Answer 3

KJV Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts (opheílēma), as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

opheílēma - noun from opheílō (G3784), to owe. Debt, that which is owed, which is strictly due (Rom_4:4). Also an offense, a trespass which requires reparation (Mat_6:12, equivalent to paraptṓmata [G3900], transgressions of Mat_6:14 and hamartías [G266], sins of Luk_11:4).

Answer 4

I thought they believed in predestination as well, I may be wrong, but I thought they(at one time) taught that God knows who and who will not get into Heaven, but you should still pray and be good because we do not know who will and will not get into Heaven.

As far as the big piece of bread, it just depends on who was tearing it I guess.

As far as the debts and debtors, I guess(if they have a different version of the bible) that might be what it says in theirs.

Answer 5

diversity is every where