Israel is the rightful owner to the land? Right?

Question

As a non-Israeli Jew, I am deeply confused, I need understanding.. a lot & a lot of understanding .. this is so complicated.. what is going on here?

Now Israel & the Israelis claim that this land belongs to them and that Greater Israel (from the Nile to the Furat) is supposed to be created and that this Land actually Belongs to Israel first!

OK, that I heard. Then, how about how about this.. ??

I just heard that the Torah, the Jewish Holy Book.. forbids a Jewish State. Now, tell me how can religion and origin work both ways: when we want, and we don't want.

See for yourself:
The recent Annapolis 2007:
http://info.jpost.com/C007/Supplements/annapolis.2007/gallery/1128.02.html

http://www.rense.com/general51/agz.htm
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/nyt/nyt062182.html

doesn't make sense at all,

i'm clearly not trying to be rude, im asking for a good explanation so that i can understand wats going on?

thanks in advance,
awaiting your answers

Paperback,
I mean "non-Israeli non-Jew" .. my bad!

Conservative Emperor,
it was supposed to look like this:
non-"Israeli Jew"

Paperback,

minor question:
The Jews that were in Israel before Islam, were they Arab Jews? .. or of what Citizenship ?

kismet77,
are you blind to the 2 additional details.

Wow, I am really enjoying this question !!
Hot Topic ;)

wooo 32 Answers ... !!!!
omg i didnt know this topic is that Hot !

i have no Idea who to chose ..

Answer 1

Well there is no rightful OWNER to Israel. It has been inhibited by different nations for a long time. Yes the Jews lived a long time ago in the country but there were other people living in it as well. This doesn't make it a Jewish land. Why did the Jews leave it if it really their land? The Israelis now keep asking the Palestinians the same question.
The fact is that before 1948 the population was 20% Jewish and 80% other races (mainly Arabs). How can the country be Jewish land? It only became a Jewish land after 1948. Half of the country rightfully belongs to the Palestinians according to UN partition plan. Half of what is now Israel was occupied.
The Torah is against the state of Israel but most Jews claim the opposite.

Peace

Answer 2

My other account was suspended so I am giving the answer again

Well there is no rightful OWNER to Israel. It has been inhibited by different nations for a long time. Yes the Jews lived a long time ago in the country but there were other people living in it as well. This doesn't make it a Jewish land. Why did the Jews leave it if it really their land? The Israelis now keep asking the Palestinians the same question.
The fact is that before 1948 the population was 20% Jewish and 80% other races (mainly Arabs). How can the country be Jewish land? It only became a Jewish land after 1948. Half of the country rightfully belongs to the Palestinians according to UN partition plan. Half of what is now Israel was occupied.
The Torah is against the state of Israel but most Jews claim the opposite.

Peace

Answer 3

Wrong, the Jews separated from Israel and didn't reform until the British gave the land to the left over survivors of the Holicaust. They took the land from the Palistinians who had lived there because the Jews no longer inhabited the land. I think the bible clearly shows the axiom that "there is one body, one God, one religion. There is no more Jew nor greek." This would show me that the land of Israel had fulfilled its purpose in being the birthplace of the Messiah and was no longer required. How ever that is my interpretation on the matter. Jews still are promised the blessing of abraham till the end of the world itself. Is the land of Israel included in the promise? I think the real promise was the Messiah coming through the line of David or the Davidic Monarchy. That promise was fulfilled. The promise of Joel the New Age of the Holy Spirit so to speak is all that is left.

Answer 4

Fan,
PLEASE understand that these so-called "holy books" are nothing more than fairy tales, intended to dupe and control the masses, and to be interpreted to the reader's advantage.
It matters not who lived in Israel/ Palestine since the beginning of time; the fact is that the nation of Palestine was composed largely of PALESTINIANS at the creation of the so-called state of "Israel". It's kind of like a large group of Ohioans coming to my state, Michigan, and saying, "Sorry, but it's ours now. Get out."
Well, I'd fight like a cougar too, if that happened to me. Since "Israel" was created in response to the Holocaust, it made no sense whatever to have stolen Palestine from its inhabitants and handed over to the Jews. If this was the rational, the Jews should have been given Germany.
If Israel's the "rightful owner" of that land, then I'm the rightful owner of the Taj Mahal.

Answer 5

The written text in no place explicitly forbids the creation of a Jewish state. To the contrary; the text in many places implies that a true Jewish existence can be had only in Israel. Where it gets complicated is in the Talmud, the Oral Law. In the Talmud, there is a legend, called the Three Oaths, which basically states 3 oaths that bind the world:
1) Jews must not rebel against their host nations
2) Jews must not return to Israel like a wall (this is interpreted as either by building a wall, i.e. rebelling against the host nation or as all together)
3) The nations of the world must not overly persecute and oppress the Jews
Some decided that this is actually law, and decide that the Jews should not rebuild a Jewish country in Israel. However, this has forever been the minority opinion; the Rambam (Maimonides), for example, who was the first to compile a work detailing all of Halakha (Jewish Law) did not include this as a rule. Even if one does consider it actually binding, for two reasons it doesn't pertain to Israel today. For one, the establishment of Israel was done only in line with international and local support; both the British and the UN sanctioned the creation of Israel. Secondly, the Holocaust clearly violated rule number 3, leaving the oaths null and void. In short, Judaism does not forbid the creation of Israel, except according to the most minority of opinions. I hope this clears things up.

Answer 6

Paperback before 1948 you couldn't find anything on Israelies as we know them today, the nationality Israeli like Palestinians is a Western Invenion the same as is the Palestine one may i remind you.

The jews of Israel are not the native Citizens either aswell.

The Palestinians claim to the area is that for 2000 years or so these Arabs as you call them lived in the area for generations albeit alongside a jewish minority who spent most of their time studying the Torah mostly in Jerusalem,Hebron but in Smaller communities to.

Answer 7

uh well thats what their book says, that can i mention they wrote, i agree with you it doesn't make sense, there is tons of proof that parts of the bible were taken off of early Mesopotamian stories as they migrated to Canaan, plus even if you deny that, how do you say that they were their first when they entire story of Joshua and the kings of Israel talk about the conquering of ancient cities (last time i checked if you conquer it from someone, you couldn't have been the first ones there)

Answer 8

OK, from what I have been taught, and I'm not Jewish..when Moses left Egypt to go to the promised land along the way he battled with different Arab tribes.
He along with Gideon and Deborah as well as others whose names escape me at the moment. As these battles went on the Jew's returning to their promised land were taking more and more land from the nomadic tribes ALREADY living in the area.
What gave them the right to do this? These Arabs were living in peace until someone got it in his or her head that this piece of land really belonged to them.
To me, no matter if the Palestinians were living there for 2000 years or 2 months..they were there..the Jews were not!
Imagine selling your house then 10 years later coming back and saying "OK, now it's my house again..get out!"
Do you really think the new owners would move without one hell of a fight?

Answer 9

Before the Zionist movement most Jews believed what Jews anti Zionist movement believe. So the question were all those millions of Jews who did not call for a Jewish state before the Messiah where wrong. They were not small groups back then they were the majority of the Jewish people.

PB: wrote "- Palestinians are in fact, from Syria, Egypt and other Arab countries. They are not the 'native' citizens of the area." This is the same argument used by the apartheid South Africa " The Blacks were not native people of South Africa they came form some other African country to South Africa." Good point PB.

Answer 10

There is a group of Orthodox Jews that misinterpret the bible - they have for hundreds of years - why would they change the misunderstanding of the bible now? Read the book "The Chosen" by Chaim Potok where many of these distinctions are discussed in a very entertaining way.

Good Luck!!!