Is it normal for a breeder to hold back papers...?

Question

...until you prove you have spay/neutered the dog as per contract?

My BF and I have never bought a dog from a breeder before. We have the search narrowed down to two breeders, both require their pups to be altered, but one has said that papers will be given to us only after the dog is altered (the only breeder we look into to have this stipulation in fact, and we looked seriously at 6 kennels). We are trying to make a final choice of breeders since both have planned breedings in the next few months. I have been warned though by people not to buy from someone who holds the papers (may not really be reg'd), and wanted to know if it was normal when buying a pet quality puppy to hold them or not? Trying to make sure we don't get fooled after so much time and effort finding a great breeder for my BF's next dog. Just wondering if this is a normal practice and shows them to be a reputable breeder, or if it seems off to anyone?

We will of course be spaying our future pup and we LIKE the fact they both have a spay/neut clause BTW, but have been warned by some people about those breeders who will say they will give you the papers later. I hear a lot of tales about buyers being told “the papers are in the mail”, or “we register them after the sale” and then they never get the papers at all.

We are looking for a Pet Quality dog, and have no interest in showing or breeding. I only want to be sure we are dealing with responsible breeders with sound sales practices, THAT IS WHY I WANT TO KNOW THEY REGISTER AND SHOW THEIR ANIMALS TO WEED OUT ALL BUT THE BEST KIND OF BREEDERS. I want to only give money to breeders who do things the right way, the way I wish all pets where bred if the world was a perfect placeI don’t care about the papers other then for that reason, not because I am some kind of elitist mutt hating monster as some may think of me.

Really I wanted to have some reassurance I had found a good breeder and not be one of those people who say later "I only wish I had known before I bought that puppy". We feel we have done everything we should as far as we know in picking breeders, but we may not “Know what we don’t know” and even with all the questions we asked and research done on how to choose a breeder there IS A LOT OF CONFLICTING ADVICE to weed through for us newbies. When I posted this question the first time a helpful person told me they were a breeder and that they give photo copies to their buyers of their puppies’ registration to prove it was done. So if the breeder does this, we can be sure puppy is properly registered properly and we are dealing with an honest breeder right?

******I needed to repost this question because maybe due to it not being clear enough (If you don’t implicitly state enough detail some people assume the worst, like I am trying to buy cheap breeding stock to start my own puppy mill or something!) the first time I got a lot of off topic answers and people assuming the worst of me looking for a fight about why I would object to a spay/neuter contract in the first place, or saying I was trying to wiggle out of my contract, and not my addressing my concerns over not having papers upfront.******

Add to Cindy F: Yes I Know I posted this once already, but as I said above I felt I was not being clear in my question and the answers were off topic and judging me UNFAIRLY and accusing me of wanting to breed my dog against the breeder's wishes or not. I am sorry I am wasting your time, but I am trying very hard to look at all resources available to me including but not limited to YA!!!! As I have said this is new to me so I am sorry if

Add to Cindy F: Yes I Know I posted this once already, but as I said above I felt I was not being clear in my question and the answers were off topic and judging me UNFAIRLY and accusing me of wanting to breed my dog against the breeder's wishes or not. I am sorry I am wasting your time, but I am trying very hard to look at all resources available to me including but not limited to YA!!!! EVEN THE AKC SAYS TO GET THE PAPERS UPFRONT. As I have said this is new to me so I am sorry if wasted your time twice, but my first question got hijacked and I was being accused of not wanting to spay at all(as I said in DOGS on YA people assume the worst of you and start making way out accusations like I would only care about the papers if I was up to no good). I reworded my question as it obviously not worded well enough the first time to get non judgmental and reactionary anwers.

Cindy F: Never said you were the one who was being reactionary or unhelpful, only stating why I reposted the question again. I also said it was my fault for not giving enough/the right details the first time I asked this question and said sorry to you for being unclear (I am not a professional writer by any means). I am not sure why you think it is so obvious I don't want to find a good breeder or want to not spay when I have said the opposite. I only want my BF to be very sure of what he is signing. The last thing I would ever do is buy a pet store/puppymill dog, and if you knew me in real life you would know how much I care about animal welfare and that I would never choose to not spay my animals. My BF and I are still learning about the process involved here and that is why I am asking so many questions, we don't want to make a bad choice. Once again I am sorry for wasting anyone's time including yours and for leaving you with such a bad impression of me.

I am sure I am not the only person to be intimidated by how much there is to learn about buying a purebred dog, I rather ask too many questions then not enough. This is my BF's choice of dog, not mine, but I have the time to be on the computer to ask questions, and am sorry if they are stupid ones. I am sorry I asked twice too, but was afraid I was not being clear the first time I asked this one. I am also sorry for doubleling my details to you(hit the wrong button too soon and I can't edit my question after I do that) it was not intentional that I posted them before I was done. I wanted to tell you why I asked the question twice since you brought it up, it was because my first attempt was not worded well. Again I am sorry I made you think I am such a stupid jerk, and thank you for your answering my question twice even if you now think less of me for it. At least know I am learning to be more clear when asking breeders questions, you have helped me, so Ta for that. Happy Christmas

Answer 1

Yes. It is done all the time by reputable breeders. As far as the paranoid response that people will not send you the papers. Get in writing that once you show proof of spay/neuter that you will receive the papers.
From the breeders point. It is easier for you to prove spay than it is to reverse a litter. This insures thet the bloodline will not be diluted.

Answer 2

This has already been discussed before as recently as this morning.

The answer is YES any responsible breeder will hold the papers until after you provide proof the dog has been neutered! The bottomline is if the breeder is selling the dog or a neutering contract and they aren't going to hold the papers until you have fulfilled the terms of your contract and neutered the dog you don't want to buy from them because they don't really care about the well being of their breed.

Added: Clearly you are incapable of reading what is actually written. The AKC say that unless there is a contract that states otherwise the papers are to be transferred with the dog. You have already stated that there is a contract that states otherwise.

You have been repeatedly been told by every responsible breeder on this list and several folks who have purchased dogs from responsilbe breeder that it is totally normal and the standard for a breeder to hold the papers until they recieve proof of neutering when the dog is sold on a neutering contract.

Since you clearly you either don't want to buy from a responsible breeder or are planning on breaking your contract and not neuter the dog, why don't you just go to the the pet shop, buy a dog from a puppymiller and stop wasting everyones time.

Answer 3

Yes, I am one of those who does that.

I have it written in the contract that the spay/neuter is part of the payment for the puppy, and until I recieve the certificate the puppy stays in my name. This is so that I can try to ensure that puppies I've sold as pets are not used as breeding animals. There are also stiff penalties in my contract for breeding a non-breeding animal.

Generally this is a sign of a breeder that cares about the welfare of their puppies.

If you are worried about the pup not being registered, ask to see the litter registration, or at least the registration for the sire and dam. If the litter is registered, you know the puppy can be registered.

Check the contract, make sure it specifies that you WILL get the registration once the requirements are met.

Answer 4

I withhold papers until proof of spay or neuter. I do not rely on "limited" registration because too often people use it to get papers through a crappy registry and breed the dog, anyway.

Ain't gonna happen with me.

I will happily provide proof that the parents and litter are registered, I will show them all of the paperwork if they want to see it (when they come to visit the house/kennel/dogs, as they should), but it doesn't get signed over to them until I have proof of spay/neuter. Then they get the paperwork with their rebate check (I refund money on the purchase price of a puppy to help defray spay/neuter costs).

The AKC would like breeders to furnish the papers at the time of the sale of the puppy, but since I'm the one who sends the AKC money, I make my own rules.

Some breeders withhold papers, some do "Limited". If everything else with the breeder seems right, ask to see the litter registration.

Answer 5

In my opinion if the breeder insists on you getting the dog neutered they already know they are trying to sell you a dog that does not meet AKC standards. In the old days the breeders would put those pups down. Now they will sell them if they are neutered. What do the papers mean for a dog that is neutered. It is their way to make money. I would not pay more for the pup than it would cost from a shelter if they insisted it be neutered. You want a pet what difference does it make if it has papers? You are looking for a family member.
I went through this. My grandson wanted a Beagle. We went to a breeder and bought a pup and they gave us the papers that showed the litter was registered with the AKC. We bought him as a pet, had him neutered and threw away the papers, why pay the AKC to register a pet.
Go to the breeders and ask them what the papers are good for a neutered dog. If they want to sell the pup without papers offer them what it would cost to get a pup from the shelter. They are trying to rip you off. Buy my pup, get it neutered, and I will give you the papers, oh buy the way the papers are useless.
Go to a shelter and find a pup that really catches your eye.
To tell you the truth some of the mixed breed pups are the best pets..

Answer 6

I still think it is a good practice to hold back papers until you give proof of spay/neuter.Since you will not be breeding papers shouldn't mean much to you.Ask to see the registration and health testing on the parents.Ask for contact info on show dogs they have bred,owned by other people.Then ask those people about the sales contract they signed.,having the breeders co-own a show pup to control the new owners breeding can be a good thing.Ask if the breeders are active in local and national breed clubs.

Answer 7

The "trauma" that those domestic canines went by way of isn't something that that they had remember. the real trauma right here is George & Carolyn Hart, who're for sure unknowledgeable "outdoor breeders" who do no longer understand sufficient to attain that no domestic canines could desire to EVER go away their mom/litters until now they're 8 weeks previous. The trauma is they shop maximum of "toddlers" that they have got a cellular abode for the litters -- in different words, they're breeding maximum of litters that they could't even enhance them of their abode. they do no longer look to be high quality, knowledgeable breeders. Run far flung from them and seem for a close-by Boxer Rescue who can help journey you up with a canines. Or, touch a accountable breeder, who breeds purely a pair litters a year (from multiple father and mom, no longer the comparable ones over & over) and who under no circumstances shall we a doggy go away the mummy/clutter until now it rather is a minimum of 8 weeks previous.

Answer 8

It's actually a really good move on the part of reputable breeders. Putting a limited registration on a dog doesn't prevent a backyard breeder wannabe from breeding that dog. It only prevents them registering the offspring.

If you're concerned (and I don't know anything about the breeder you're looking at), ask for references. If the breeder shows their dogs, that's another good indication - they wouldn't want any chance at all of their pet stock being bred.

You can ask for the name of their vet if you want, as well as previous puppy buyers. Contact them to ask questions and set your mind at rest.

Answer 9

Actually this is NOT uncommon....and may prove them a reputable breeder (they care beyond if the check cashes)! But because it does happen with reputable breeders its a loophole used by those who atually don't have papers. Now the chances a breeder who is activly showing (or other dog sports) DOESN'T have papers is between nill & zilch and this kind of probition would be most common with a show breeder so are they showing?

Id'd suggest using other signls to tell if they are reputable...

http://timbreblue.com/trafficlights.html

Answer 10

No, it's not normal. I wouldn't accept it. If the pup is AKC registered, she can mark that little space in next to limited, deeming that the pup will receive limited registration, and won't be able to get papers for any future litters. If the pup is from another registry, they aren't exactly registered, as most other registries are a joke, unless you live somewhere besides the US.

All she needs to do, is have you sign a spay/neuter contract, mark limitied, and be a good breeder and check that you've done so. It's really quite simple.

I wouldn't buy any pup with out leaving with the pup, and the papers in hand.

Edit: Sorry about your previous bad experience, people here can be like that.

Edit: Other things to look out for: You want to see both parents, make sure they are the breed you are being sold, and that they have good dispositions, as looks aren't the only thing that is hereditary.

You want to visit your new pup in it's home, so you can see where it comes from and that it's been raised in a clean, healthy environment and received the best of care. This also helps in picking out your pup, as a pup at home is comfortable in it's surroundings and will show it's true personality. Always beware of the breeder that wants to deliver your pup, or meet you some where, they have something to hide. And meeting the pup in a place that is new to the pup, can cause it to act shy and more reserved, so you won't be as certain what it's true personality is.

This is all I can think of at the moment, but in case you hadn't thought of this, I thought I'd add it.

Edit: I would not be happy with a photocopy. I want the actual registration form for my pup. By the time I pay that kind of money, I expect to leave with everything I've purchased.