Why is the universe not considered a closed system?

Question

It seems to me nothing can get in or out from outside of the universe. If I was to follow this, then it is more akin to a giant closed system.
The only way to consider it an open system is to allow for something outside of our universe, which can influence entropy.
(I had to place this question because all of the science apologists weren't looking in the physics section)

Preacher's husband-I believe by scientific standards, it is considered an open system, otherwise we would fall into entropy a.k.a. chaos.

KK- Have you seen these other universes? If so, I'd love for you to point me in the right direction, if not, you are putting faith in something you can not see, nor prove.

Lightbulb42- I do not consider it an open system. I believe it is closed which leads me to wonder why we haven't fallen into entropy.

Sly Fox- How perceptive of you ;). I needed to get more input;more minds thinking about the precepts of science and the nature of things. My, or anyone else's beliefs are of no consequence. Things are what they are and we are sharpening our perceptions all the time yet, these are still only an approximation of reality. The atheistic youngsters hold science up as the candle to guide our way. While I might agree, things have gotten out of perspective. Many use the term "I believe" in their exhortation of what science tells them Truth is.

ejc11- Kinda begs the question "what is outside the universe and why is it keeping chaos at bay?"

Answer 1

I don't think that we can consider it either until we understand the nature of certain phenomena. There are still matters to resolve with respect to Black Hole and White hole theory, the nature of 'Dark Matter', and quantum level events.

Answer 2

Do you ever get a sense of Déjà vu.

Because I am sure I have already answered but I can't find the question anywhere!

Anyway as I may have answered in another time and another place and maybe even another universe!
I'll do it again here in this one.

Thinking about in the other I'm sure the question was "Why is the universe considered a closed system"

Some would say that as the universe is still expanding it cannot therefore be considered a closed system, I would also add the the boundaries of our universe are those set by our understanding of them.

As for the science you need to look into the laws of thermodynamics.

I will stick to logic in my response as it is easy to get lost in complex theory.

You state that the only way to consider it an open system is to allow for something outside of our universe, which can influence entropy.
I will ask can we truly rule this out?
All we can say is that based on what we know so things appear to be so!
http://space.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524911.600
see 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10,11, and 12

If you read some of the work of Mark Buchanan concerning Double Jeopardy then you will see there maybe reason to question many of the things we take as fact!
http://markbuchanan.net/

So going back to your question "Why is the universe not considered a closed system?"

You need to ask why those who Consider a thing to believe is a thing that is so!

You could also look at
http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/20702
http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/index.php?s=6b22a38ba71d0264a4dd147ca0c1c83f&showtopic=769575&pid=2687445&st=40&#entry2687445


I'm sorry if you feel that I have failed in answering your question, but truly I have done the best that is humanly possible.
Honestly, I tried!

Answer 3

This Site Might Help You.

RE:
Why is the universe not considered a closed system?
It seems to me nothing can get in or out from outside of the universe. If I was to follow this, then it is more akin to a giant closed system.
The only way to consider it an open system is to allow for something outside of our universe, which can influence entropy.
(I had to place this question...

Answer 4

What you are talking about is the 19th century hypothesis called the "heat death of the universe". Any scientist now would be foolish to tell you that they were sure that the universe is a closed system. In fact, the more information that physicists get about the nature of the universe, the more likely they are to tell you that it is not a closed system.

I agree with you, though--I was taught in school to think of the universe as an expanding balloon that has an defined edge, which means the laws of thermodynamics should apply to them just like they would apply in calorimeter. Continued contradictory evidence is making most scientists question that model.

Answer 5

Some believe that the universe is infinite and there are an infinite number of universes.
Others believe the universe is like a ball. If you go far enough in one direction you will end up back where you started.
Why do you assume nothing gets in or out of the universe? It would seem to me thats a long way from being proven.

Answer 6

are you sure it is considered closed ?
my opinion is that it is open since i believe it has no boundery.

universe is an open system , suppose it has a boundery. take a point on that boundery.
how would you define a point on the boundery ?

its a point on the boundery if there is in any small region of that point another point that is not in the universe. but the universe is composed of all points so you can not chose a boundery point. any point in the universe will in any region of that point only contain points of the universe.

so yo can say that the boundery of the universe is not part of the universe, but then it doesnt exist since the universe is composed of everything.

thus universe has no boundery and therefor it is an open system.

why do you think it is a closed system ?

Answer 7

The Universe is the totality of existence, so it should be considered a closed system. All of this multi-Universe stuff should not be referred to as such, as there aren't multiple Universes but rather multiple parts to the Universe which can appear in some manner to be separate but which are part of the whole.

You people are daft. You are thinking of the Universe only in terms of mass and space, and it is more than that. This is why you think it isn't a closed system, because you are limiting what you consider the Universe to be rather than seeing it as what it actually is.

Answer 8

the universe is finite with an infinite border. This is due to the expansion at light speed of said border. Since nothing can go faster than light, nothing can escape from the universe. By definition also. If the universe encompasses all that is, then anything "outside" it would still be part of the universe and hence, "inside."

Answer 9

The Universe is considered never ending far beyond what we will ever be able to reach. Closed solar system open universe.

Answer 10

I've always wonderered that too. If the universe is expanding there must be something to expand into. But this does not square with the concept of universe.