Should America be rid of capitalism, religion, and... ?

Question

P.S. (Later)

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I,m some what releaved to find out that there are some individuals using this medium that have some common sense... since I was partially quoting Hitler who declared that, " Germany must be rid of capitalism, religion, and jews"... which is ominously similar to the rhetoric of many radical neoprogressive leftists in America today who are essentially saying that, "America must be rid of capitalism, religion, and christians", Just read what they,re saying on this medium in their own words.

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I,m some what releaved to find out that there are some individuals using this medium that have some common sense... since I was partially quoting Hitler who declared that, " Germany must be rid of capitalism, religion, and jews"... which is ominously similar to the rhetoric of many radical neoprogressive leftists in America today who are essentially saying that, "America must be rid of capitalism, religion, and christians", Just read what they're saying on this medium in their own words.

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justgood... thanks for the comeback... some good points!

You say "no leftist is advocating that and everyone knows it"

Bill Clinton at the Detroit Economic Club in 2002 said [ trying to sound like Roosevelt ] my fellow americans we have found a third way...

Barak Obama speaks of a third way in his book.

Lakoff's book "Don't Think Of An Elephant" which reads like a modern Mein Kamph, is heavely promoted by George Soros, Howard Dean, and the DNC... which implies the third way doctrine saying we must bring corporations under stake-holder control
as the NAZI party controlled Schindlers business in the true movie Schindlers List.

Lehners book "The Left Hand Of GOD"
proposes an even more draconian shift to the left.

The term "The Third Way" was coined by Mikhail Gorbachev as a proposal to save communist socialism... which is simply put a new term for fascist socialism.

Ironically... fascist socialism was proposed as way to save capitalism in the global depression of the 1930s during which Roosevelt was accused of being a fascist by some in response to his draconian New Deal legislation in which the government took over numerous industries.

I would sincerely be interested in your opinion on my response to "will conservatism exist in 2050" in my MY ANSWER folder.

justgood... thanks for your [Edit 2] response.

Your review of the numerous third way doctrines are accurate, of which I have studied.

You"ve also accurately pointed out the libertarian and conservative [republican] contention with third way doctrines, as I'm a libertarian with a capital "C" as Hayek, Freedman, and Greenspan would say.

There has been numerous fascist states of which the leaders very in their dialectic rhetoric and philosophies of governance with in a fascist state... and referring to mussolini's rhetoric alone does not disclose the common unifying characteristic of all fascist states in simplest historical terms to emphasize what fascism came to be over time... not just in mussolini's italy.

As such... early on... fascist socialism was seen by its many proponents, from H.G. Wells to many well intended thinkers of the day, as a COMPROMISE between laissez-faire capitalism and communist socialism at the time...

... as you accurately pointed out that third way doctrines are perceived and promoted to be.

Regarding religion and christianity...

In the united states, hostility towards religion, and more so christianity in particular, has been growing to a feverish pitch as evident on college campuses, in many leftwing magazines such as the nation and the progressive etc., websites too numerous to mention, news paper write-ins to editors, and books, of which those sentiments are coming from those who are unabashedly leftwing... and of whom are also the major contingent of those proposing third way doctrines... hense the Hitler quote reference... and point to opposing individuals on the other side as being just as bad does not invalidate my frame or point.

Moreover though... the antireligion and christian bashing contingent would also prefer to do away with capitalism altogether if they could get their way. I know this because I read their books, magazine and newspaper articles, etc.

Christopher Hitchen's book, "God is not great" is simply a primer into the increasing antipathy towards religion and christians in particular in this country... and I say that as a non-christian.

Now I'm not comparing the hostility towards christians in the U.S. to the level of pursecution of the jews... only that they, more than other religous groups, are being singled out by those in the antireligion movement... most of whom are secular egalitarian humanists.

Note that Hitler was a self profested humanist. [as Goebbel promoted him as, as well]

Regarding fascist socialism...

I suspect where your notions of fascist socialism lacks clarity is that is that you might not be making the necessary distinction between fascist socialism and [hitlers nazi party and mussolinis fascist pary]... where the former is a socioeconomic system... and the later two are political parties.

Not all fascist socialist states were totalitarian as hitlers and mussolini's [or hussain's] were...

i.e. franco spain was authoritarian, as is present day iran.

Where I suspect we part, and why you might not be objectively recognizing the ominus parallels of the present, to prehitler germany that I've tacitly implied... is that I'm defining fascist socialism [not mussolini's fascist socialist party] by what all fascist socialist states had in common... while your defining fascism as it pertains [for the most part] to mussolini's political fascist party and [less so] to hitlers political nazi party... and the extreme elements there of.

Extremes do not define the norm.

Now I'm with you reqarding your antipathy and aversion for the extremes as you choose to view them... but I go further with antipathy and aversion to the more fundamental common socioeconomic principles of fascist socialism... that being the compromise between individualism and collectivism... and laissez-faire capitalism and communist socialism... which I perceive as going too far...

Because history has shown over and over again, as established in hayeks book, "road to serfdom", and fromms book,"escape from freedom", that there's no closing pandora's box once its opened and the distinctions between the private sector and the public sector begins to be blurred...
which impairs and distorts market functions that lead to significant market distortion that eventually correct in the worst ways.

Economic questions should not have political answers.

The vise of capitalism is its unequal distribution of blessings. The virtue of socialism is its equal distribution of misery. [winston churchill]

A more significant common thread that links communist socialism, fascist socialism, and third way doctrines is the religion of egalitarian humanism with its utopian [distopian] delusions... the pursuit of which have led to the democide of over 140 million [and counting] humans todate.

[i.e. hitler germany, mussolini italy, soviet union, red china, pol pot cambodia, north korea, north vietnam, cuba, ... , etc.]

The dialectic contradiction and faustian delusion of the religion of egalitarian humanism is...

The moment man sees himself as the meaning and measure of all things... is the moment man looses his humanity.

Those who burn books [revisionists rewriting history]... will burn people.

That man is the meaning and measure of all things is the fundamental belief of the religion of egalitarian humanism.

Egalitarian humanists see the third way doctrine simply as a necessary stepping stone along their way toward their idea of creating heaven on earth...
[i.e. utopia].

Well history has shown over and over again that...

Attempts to create heaven on earth, invariably lead to hell. [karl popper]

P.S. Neoprogressives [and others on the left] that are essentially saying that america must be rid of capitalism, religion, and christians... [the progressive magazine columnists and write-ins, the nation magazine columnists and write-ins, air america hosts and quests and call-ins, christopher hitchens, howard zinn, noam chomsky, michael moore, rose o'donnell, many in hollywood film industry, ... ,etc. etc. etc.].

As I see it... I'm partially on the outside of a socialist system objectively looking in... while your in a socialist system subjectively looking out...

True virtue cannot be compelled... but rather only comes from free will !!!

I totally appreciated and ejoyed your response... thanks again !

see YAHOO QUESTIONs, " which current american political party would Hitler have felt most comfortable with and why?" by ning n , and "Will conservatism exist in 2050?" by Don't oppress me Bro.

e7.2521

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justgood... I'm sorry... but REALLY now!!! Your social darwanism question??? PLEASE!!!

Your living entirely in your head on this one, which leads me to suspect that you [as well as the other group think bloats agreeing with you] have never read a single book writen by a conservative polemic... now have!

Leave Karl [charlie] Marx's and Engel's theories in the trash-bin of history where they belong!

See YAHOO QUESTION... " Should those who earn the most also contribute the most in taxation?" by Hi

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THIRD WAY or THIRD REICH

http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/19990520thirdway.php

Answer 1

No.

As stated, our economy is based on the free market allocating needed resources, and the goal of people to make life better for themselves. It has been shown repeatedly that Capitalism gets more to more people than any other economic system bar none, in a country. Yet folks want socialism, with its controls and especially it's elitism. Hard to say why!

Now, when the government changes the Rules and especially makes it hard for the middle class to advance by heavy progressive taxes, and by allowing the Very Rich and the Politicians to escape taxes and gives them special privileges, it is no longer capitalism, but a form of very biased socialism.

I can go for getting rid of special laws and privileges that distort 'capitalism' as we do it here now!

You cannot be free of a religion and be human. Even those who claim no religion have a belief system they cling to almost regardless of facts. It is inherent in Man's makeup, and those with NO system of beliefs are the most pathetic, unable to justify anything or know the effects on their lives and others' lives, since they try to believe in no system.

I am sure if YOU check yourself, you will find you have a belief system, organized. A Religion, tho you probably object to calling it such. But it is the best word for the organized system of beliefs in what is right and wrong and irrelevant. If only for you.

One of your beliefs, then, in your faith, your Religion, is that religion is bad. You have a problem, and you had best not think on it or you may go crazy.

Now, if you pick an organized religion, like, say, Islaam, maybe the world would be better if it was done away with.
I cannot say, but you are not going to stop all religion with a stroke of a pen. As long as there are humans, there will be a religion of some sort.

And on the way out, turn off the light on humanity.

If you are picking on a State forced religion, I agree fully...that is precisely why our country was founded such that the Government could not make you follow any specific religion. However, it can penalize you if your religion happens to cause you to believe, say, that your fellow man should be killed, contrary to civil law.

Dunno about the "...". Maybe lawyers? Maybe undefined "P.S."'s?

...How about: rid of alcoholic beverages? There are more than ample proofs that they cause great suffering, great economic drains, and great loss of life, far more than most if not all criminals. Just not always as spectacularly. Yet aren't you happy that we have them even tho they kill 30,000 people a year nominal in road traffic alone, not to mention disease, crimes of passion, and quite a litany of known direct and indirect effects., and often wipe out whole innocent families?

Your religion has a tenet in it that killing of innocents is OK if caused by alcoholic beverages, does it not? One of many specific articles of faith as to when killing of the innocents is correct in your personal religious system.

I could go on, but I think you would be happiest if we gave American back to the Bison and Mastedons and Dire Wolves and Saber-toothed Tigers and smaller animals that kill and are killed, without moral sense at all., and cleaned all humans out and let the "morality" of the animals regain ascendancy. Am I not correct?

But what then happens next?? "Evolution" makes Man yet again, with a moral sense? Hmmm???

Answer 2

Nope
Those are things that has made us great that of Freedom of Religion we are far more tolerant of other religions than anywhere else.
Capitalism has made us such a draw of talent from around the world.

Answer 3

No to both, but there should still be healthcare for the working poor and religion needs to stay out of government, we are already teetering on the edge of becoming a Theocracy.

Answer 4

Maybe not capitalism, but definitly religion.

Religion causes so much suffering and is unnecessary. It also loses us valuble members of society, who go off to become priests or whatever and then don't really help with anything.

Answer 5

Well, that means getting rid of economic freedom andreligious freedom. And--if you are going to get rid of religion, you can't very well let people talk about it, so that takes care of freedom of speech, freedom of the press. . . .

In a word, no.

In two words, HELL NO!

Answer 6

Yes !!! Let's go Global ! I can't wait until they finally destroy our constitution, and our rights will be granted to us by the the Good ol government, instead of those silly inalienable ones.

Answer 7

Just as soon as we become a socialist/facist state.

Answer 8

And I suppose you would want to rule? As a Dictator ?

Answer 9

No on both. Capitalism is a system of economics that needs some social corrections yes but communism kills individual choice and freedom and that's the only alternative to capitalism. Capitalism in itself isn't bad if you just correct the most brutal sides of it by keeping things like vital government services, health care and education out of the free market.
Religious freedom is a cornerstone of a free and open society and is in the US constitution.. People can believe whatever they want. Your proposals and I have no idea where they're coming from seem to be very totalitarian. Totalitarian systems never make people happy.

BTW I'm a social Democrat and an atheist meaning I'm not a free market fetishist or indoctrinated by any religion. What you say is just way too much simplified. Politics doesn't work like that


EDIT on your update. No leftist is advocating that and everyone knows it.
How is this Hitler quote different than the retoric of Rush Limbaugh or An Coulter? You tell me
"Today Christians ... stand at the head of this country We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past years "

The Neocon doctrine of preemptive war and open wars of agression and the way they deal or try to deal with dissent is also quite similar.

"Naturally the common people do not want war: neither in Russia, nor England, nor, for that matter, in Germany. That is understood. But, after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Wilhelm Goring at the Nuremberg Trails

"Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.”

~Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
-- Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

See there are far more accurate similarities between the far right cons than anything a leftist let alone an American liberal would say, support and or advocate

You're way of target.

Edit2 to answer your third way remarks. Maybe you should have asked about what politicians mean when they use terms like third way then and I could have told you many different politicians have used that name for very different ideas and projects

When Bill Clinton used the term thrid way it was is a centrist political philosophy of governance that embraces a mix of market and interventionist philosophies. The Third Way rejects both socialism and laissez-faire approaches to economic governance, but chiefly stresses technological development, education, and competitive mechanisms to pursue economic progress and governmental objectives.[1] Third way philosophies have been described as a synthesis of capitalism and socialism by its proponents.[2]

Past invocations of a political 'third way' have included the Fabian Socialism, Keynesian economics, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, and Harold Macmillan's 1950s One Nation Conservatism.[3] A "Third Way" approach has been adopted by some social democrats and social liberals in many Western liberal democracies.[4] The most recent prominent examples being the Clinton Administration in the United States, the Liberal Party government of Canada under Jean Chretien, the Labour Party governments of the United Kingdom under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, and the Australian Labor Party under Kevin Rudd.

The third way has been criticized by some conservatives and libertarians who advocate laissez-faire capitalism.[5] It has also been heavily criticized by many social democrats and democratic socialists in particular as a betrayal of left-wing values.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way_(centrism)

Mikhail Gorbachev wanted to save socialism while ending stalinism. That has nothing to do with fascism at all.

We read in the fascist manifesto in the words of Benito Mussolini himself:
"Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....

...iven that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State.... "

Mikhail Gorbachev wanted to hold on to the Marxist roots of the Soviet Union wich is the polar opposite of fascism.

Fascism is hostile to Marxism, liberalism, and conservatism, yet it borrows concepts and practices from all three. Fascism rejects the principles of class struggle and workers' internationalism as threats to national or racial unity, yet it often exploits real grievances against capitalists and landowners through ethnic scapegoating or radical-sounding conspiracy theories. Fascism rejects the liberal doctrines of individual autonomy and rights, political pluralism, and representative government, yet it advocates broad popular participation in politics and may use parliamentary channels in its drive to power. Its vision of a "new order" clashes with the conservative attachment to tradition-based institutions and hierarchies, yet fascism often romanticizes the past as inspiration for national rebirth.
http://www.publiceye.org/eyes/whatfasc.html


Lastly I have to ask even if that third way story was remotely accurate how does speaking of a third way equate to a Hitler quote calling for an end to religion, capitalism and Jews? I'll answer that, nothing!

Like I said before you're way of.

Answer 10

capitalism no............everybody should get rid of religion(world's largest business).the cause of more death and suffering thur the years than any other reason