IS DAVID ASCENDED YET??
It seems there are passages teaching what is commonly called 'soul sleep' by many groups, and of course a few seeming to teach the other, that we would ascend to heaven instantly upon death. I have studied these two sides of the subject the most, not to say there are no other views, for there certainly are, including reincarnation, but I would say we SLEEP til the resurrection, whether that is the first resurrection or the second. The passages that suggest an instant trip to heaven CAN be understood that when a person dies they 'fall asleep' and the next thing they realize is being present in the ressurection. Therefore SEEMING to be instant.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
THIS PASSAGE obviously depicts a soul sleep application most would say, but I must confess, it could simply be suggesting the disembodied spirit of an individual will not receive his redeemed body until the time of resurrection and then be like the messiah with his risen body. What about others however?
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
THIS passage seems to suggest 'soul sleep' as well to me, except of course for the ones that are alive at his coming. I think it is a little harder to suppose this to be like the 1 John passage above because Paul gives personality to those 'asleep'. That suggests he was considering the person to be sleeping not waiting in heaven for a body to be resurrected. Else you have A person in TWO places at once.
Psa 17:15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.
The writer of this Psalm knew WHEN he was going to have the likeness we are speaking of. It was not going to be until HE awoke! Again personality to one that is dead.
The instant ascension at death makes no sense when compaired to the teaching Paul is trying to express in this application of ones old man being dead and THEN rising to life in a ressurection unto life.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
SAME IN THESE: Eph_2:1, Eph_5:14; Joh_5:21, Joh_6:63; Rom_8:2
THEY ARE DEAD and need the ressurection in ALL these typifications.
AGAIN, WHEN did Messiah say we would be with him???
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
To get around this one, a person would HAVE to say Messiah returns many times before ever actually 'returning' for the resurrection. Ofcourse it means his return which brings about the resurrection unto life eternal for all true believers regardless of the time they have lived on this earth. The graves will be opened! Halleluyah!
It is VERY soon to happen I believe.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Isa 26:14 [They are] dead, they shall not live; [they are] deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
Psa 6:5 For in death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 >>>>>>>>>>>For David is not ascended into the heavens: <<<<<<<< <<<<<
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
The argument concerning Lazarus and the rich man is nothing more than a parable concerning House of Judah and House of Israyl. IF IT WAS NOT A PARABLE then the Messiah was not the Messiah, for it is prophecied promise that he would speak to the common people in parables ONLY.
There are those that believe in a place of holding for the person that is not actually the grave nor 'heaven'. Some call this place paradise, some sheol, some 'the guff', and etc. The explanation around these ideas can be found in the passage above I have already quoted. They are in error if they would take the time to receive the correction and study it out further.
2007-12-22 05:43:33
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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