Jehovah's Witnesses and the Number 144,000???? Everyone Else??

Question

Ok, I have seen this question asked a lot and I know the answer as to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe about the number 144,000 (Rev 7:4, 14:1)

But what do other religions believe? As a Catholic no one ever told me about this verse, I found it one day in the Bible and years later the JWs explained it to me.

So, what do YOU believe this number (and the verses) means??? (and please tell us whether that is the official stance of your religion or your personal opinion, thank you)

A kind request to the answerers and all interested to return to this question once in a while to "hear" what everyone else as to say too. We could all learn from this. :-)

Bibliophile1954- That list of "Jews" is different from the list in Numbers 1:4-16.
In Numbers there is no tribe of Joseph, and the tribes of Ephraim and Dan are not included in the list in Revelation, and the Levites were set aside for service in connection with the temple but were not reckoned as one of the 12 tribes.

So it cannot be the literal tribes of Isreal.

For those without a Bible at hand....
Revelation 7:4- And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel

Revelation 14:1- And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.

I did not ask "How do you feel about the Jehovah's Witnesses?"

I asked "What do these verses mean to YOU?"

Rebekah- I agree with you, Rev 7:9 holds out hope for me personally too!!!

But what do the verses I asked about mean???

Answer 1

Rev 7 v 4, this refers to a specific number 144000 who have been chosen out of the earth to rule in heaven with Christ as priests and kings. Although it mentions the tribes of the Sons of Isreal, it is not the literal Isreal, for one thing no physical jew knows from which tribe he belongs since all records were lost in 70 CE at the destruction of the temple by the Romans.
Revelation 7:4-8 divides the 144,000 members of spiritual Israel into 12 ‘tribes’ of 12,000 each. The list differs slightly from the lists of Jacob’s sons (including Levi) who were the tribal heads of natural Israel. (Ge 49:28) The following may be the reason for the difference:

Jacob’s firstborn son Reuben lost his right as firstborn by his misconduct. (Ge 49:3, 4; 1Ch 5:1, 2) Joseph (the firstborn son of Jacob through his second, but favorite, wife Rachel) gained the privileges of firstborn son, including the right to have two parts, or portions, in Israel. (Ge 48:21, 22) In the Revelation list “Joseph” evidently stands for Ephraim. And Manasseh represents Joseph’s second portion in spiritual Israel. The tribe of Levi is listed; to make room for Levi without increasing the number of tribes, no tribe of Dan is included in Revelation 7:4-8, but apparently not because of any unsuitability on Dan’s part. The inclusion of Levi would also serve to show that there is no special priestly tribe in spiritual Israel, the entire spiritual nation being “a royal priesthood.”—1Pe 2:9.
But pof course, there are others who will be saved through Jehovahs war of armageddon, these are the great crowd at Rev. 7 v 9 who have the hope of living forever on Paradise earth.
To Old Fashioned Girl, I beg to differ with regard to JW's not believing in Jesus Christ. Wherever did you get that idea? Jesus is the Son of God and he came to eart as a sacrifice so that all those who exercise faith in him can have everlasting life.

Answer 2

How many tribes are there in Israel? 12. The 144,000 are actually 12,000 of the 12 tribes if Israel. These are Jewish men who turn into preachers on steroids during the Tribulation.

Jw's twist this number. Apparently only 144,000 jw's are going to heaven. Question...does the 144,000th person get booted out when another becomes a member of the anointed class? Is this a cycle?

After this I looked and there before me was a great MULTITUDE THAT NO ONE COULD COUNT, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. Rev. 7:9

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. Rev. 7:4

Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000(Tribes of Israel not jw's) who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. Rev. 14:1

Answer 3

I think the more important verse is the one following the ones Bibliophile states...Revelation 7:9

After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;

Beautiful. The worship of God open to all. ALL. No limit.

Edit:
Ok, this is my opinion. I am not nearly studied enough to speak for any particular denomination's stance. I have given it some prayer and thought. The 144,000 sealed, being those who guide us in our path. Touched, sealed, not literal number, but less, certainly that the multitudes, which can be limitless. Those who have a special calling to lead others.

Answer 4

I am a christian and I have asked the same question before about 10 years ago and if has something to do with the twelve tribes of israel. I don't remember exactly though.

I think JW's believe that that is the number of people who will be allowed in heaven??? I think???

I would definately like to learn more about this so, I'll be back for sure to see some more answers.

Good question!

Answer 5

I just tell them the truth. I havn't the desire nor the energy to be one of those 144,000 and even if I did what chance would there be that I would be one of them. So according to this I may as well just go on enjoying the short life I have and not worry about something that I have no control over nor ever will. I mean, e ven if I were to give up all my bad habits and be a true Jehovah Witness I still wouldn't one of those 144,000. So I may as well get ready to return to the dust from which I came. That's OK. I mean, I was already there anyways so what the heck.
You will find the verse in Revelations somewhere.

Answer 6

an old fashion girl (?) please do not be sorry for not of of Jehovah's servants. But I must say that I do feel pity for you. You have stated things that are so untrue, things that make so sense. If you truly would like to know the truth about what Jehovah's Witnesses believe please feel free to ask one, simply go to the official website of Jehovah's Witnesses at WWW.WATCHTOWER.ORG

WE WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH, WE WANT YOU TO ALSO HAVE THE CHANCE OF EVER LASTING LIFE HERE ON A PARADISE EARTH. YES THE ONE THAT JEHOVAH HAS PROMISED FOR THE GREAT CROWD.

THOSE OF THE 144,000 (THESE ARE THE ONES THAT HE HAS INVITED TO HIS HEAVENLY HOME) WILL BE IN A HEAVENLY PARADISE.

THESE ONES ARE TAKEN NOT FROM ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE BUT FROM EVERY TRIBE AND NATION.


WHAT A LOVING GOD JEHOVAH IS, WHAT A LOVING GOD.

Answer 7

This is what I found to best explain it. I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I believe the heat is turned up that they think it will be only Jehovah's Witnesses that fit this 144,000. Your Question was put in a good way as to not offend but a gathering of the minds, good job.

Answer 8

At Matthew 21:43, Jesus told the Jews: "This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits."

If the kingdom of God was taken from the nation of Israel and given to another "nation," we ought to ask, What nation was the kingdom of God given to?

It was given to the nation of spiritual Israel. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul completely demolished the idea that God's promises still applied to the fleshly Jewish nation. In fact, at Galatians 6:16, Paul referred to Christ's congregation as the "Israel of God."

Furthermore, James opened his letter by extending greetings "to the twelve tribes scattered about." He was not referring to the literal 12 tribes of Israel, but to Christians.

Let the reader be reminded that Christ built his congregation on the 12 apostles, who replaced the 12 tribes of Israel as Jehovah's nation.

With these vital Bible truths in mind, then, and using our powers of reason, it is evident that the 144,000 are actually chosen from all peoples and nations and not merely Israel. But, they are also appropriately symbolized as an organization made up of 12 tribes of Israel.

Answer 9

The Bible refers to annointed Christians as spiritual "Jews". Here's why:

God's original nation of Israel was chosen by God to be "a people for his name". However, the nation of Israel did not prove loyal to God. Hence, when Israel rejected Jesus, God turned his attention to a new nation, spiritual Israel, that is, the Christian congregation.

Hence, the "Jews" mentioned in Revelation 14 are the annointed Christian congregation. The rest of mankind will live forever on earth in paradise. -Psalm 37:9-11, 29

Answer 10

Harpazo = Rapture

END-TIME BIBLE PROPHECY

The Messiah Lord Jesus said BIRTH PANGS would signal the time of the end (Matthew 24:8). There are NINE birth pangs, they are all PRE-TRIBULATIONAL and the 1st three already occurred.

The first birth pang was worldwide conflict coupled with famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:7-8). Worldwide conflict was fulfilled in 1914-1918, major famines happened in 1918-1921 and most of the world’s major earthquakes began to occur since 1900.

The second birth pang was the restoration of a Jewish State (Ezekiel 20:33-38; Ezekiel 22:17-22; Ezekiel 36:22-24; Zephaniah 2:1-2). This was fulfilled in 1948.

The third birth pang was Jewish control of the Old City of Jerusalem (Revelation 11:1-2). For the third Jewish Temple (Tribulation Temple) to be rebuilt, Jerusalem needs to be under Jewish control and this was accomplished in the Six Day War in 1967.

The fourth birth pang will be the Ezekiel 38 war. Russia, allied states of Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia, Germany and Armenia will invade Israel. God will miraculously destroy the invading army by earthquake, civil war among the invading soldiers, pestilence, blood, flood, hailstones, fire and brimstone. This will bring a revival in Israel where many Jews will turn to the Lord, and Israel will spend 7 years and 7 months burying the bodies and burning for fuel the military equipment left behind (Ezekiel 39:9-16).

The 5th birth pang will be the development of a one world government (Daniel 7:23-24).

The 6th birth pang will be the splitting of the one world government into 10 kingdoms and this Ten Kingdom Stage will continue until mid-Tribulation (Daniel 7:24).

The 7th birth pang will be the revelation of the Antichrist (II Thessalonians 2:1-3; Daniel 7:24).

The 8th birth pang will be a period of peace and false security that will be shattered by the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3).

The 9th and final birth pang before the Tribulation is the signing of the 7-year covenant between Israel and the Antichrist. THIS EVENT IS WHAT BEGINS THE (7-year) TRIBULATION - NOT THE RAPTURE!

The Rapture of the Church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) is also a pre-tribulational event (Luke 21:34-37; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 19:6-8). The fact that the Church is not mentioned in any of the Tribulation Scriptures proves the Rapture is pre-tribulational. All raptured Christians will receive glorified bodies (Romans 8:22-23; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54)) and it can happen at any second.


THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 6-9 AND 17)

The Ministry of 144,000 sealed Jewish believers will bring many throughout the world to accept Christ.

There will be a powerful Ministry of Two Witnesses who will also be anointed Jewish believers.

A one world religious system (Babylon the Harlot) will rule. Under this one world religious system, many who are saved during the Tribulation will suffer persecution and death.

The Political system of the 10 kings of the one world government will continue.

During the first half of the Tribulation there will also be war, worldwide famine, death (1/4 of the world’s population will die), a huge earthquake, a blackout and a meteor shower. 1/3 of earth’s dry surface will be destroyed, 1/3 sea life and salt water will be destroyed, a fallen angel called Wormwood will make 1/3 of earth’s fresh water bitter, 1/3 of earth’s natural light sources will be destroyed, there will be another blackout and demons in the form of “locust-scorpions” will come up out of the abyss led by Abaddon their king and they will inflict harm and pain for five months upon those who are not sealed by God (unbelievers). Another demonic invasion will occur and the demons involved will be led by four fallen angels who will be released from the Euphrates River and this army will kill 1/3 of the earth’s population.


MID-TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES IN REVELATION 10-14 AND 17)

The Antichrist will war against the 10 kings, and during the war the Antichrist will be killed.

Satan will be cast out of the atmospheric heavens onto earth and will resurrect the Antichrist.

The Antichrist will kill 3 kings (the kings of Syria, Egypt and Mesopotamia) and the 7 other kings will submit to him.

The Antichrist will kill the Two Witnesses in Jerusalem and the wicked people will celebrate this event. Three and a half days afterwards, God will resurrect the Two Witnesses and take them up to Heaven and the people who celebrated will become terrified. The city of Jerusalem where the murder of the Two Witnesses occurred will then suffer an earthquake which will kill 7,000 people.

The False Prophet will receive from Satan the power to perform great miracles and will deceive many. The False Prophet will command all people to worship the Antichrist and have persons create an image to the Antichrist. The False Prophet will use his satanic powers to give it life and the ability to speak. The False Prophet will cause those who refuse to worship the Antichrist and the image to be killed.

The False Prophet will issue his own counterfeit seal known as the Mark of the Beast and it will be placed on all those who surrender to the Antichrist’s authority and accept him as god. Those who refuse to take this mark will not be able to buy or sell. Those who take this mark will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

The Antichrist will break the seven-year covenant he made with Israel, cause the sacrifices to stop, sit in the Jewish Temple, declare to the world that he is really God and set up an idol called the Abomination of Desolation in the Temple (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11; Matthew 24:15-16; 11Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 13:11-15).

Through the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Satan will attempt to destroy the Jews once and for all but he will fail because 1/3 of the Jews will succeed in fleeing into the wilderness. These Jews who escape will accept the Lord Jesus as their Saviour during the Tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9) and while they are in hiding, God will miraculously provide for them (Zechariah 13:8-9; Isaiah 41:17-20). Divine intervention will also destroy the pursuing army.


THE SECOND HALF OF THE TRIBULATION (SUPPORTING VERSES FOUND IN REVELATION 15, 16, 18, 19, 20)

In the second half of the Tribulation, those with the Mark of the Beast will suffer skin sores, the remainder of sea water and fresh water will be destroyed, the sun will cause terrible burns and the wicked will blaspheme God. There will be yet another blackout and persons will suffer gnawing pains.

Babylon will be the center of world economy and political system but Babylon will be swiftly destroyed by fire and become uninhabitable for man.

The Antichrist will locate the Jews who sought refuge in the wilderness and surround them with his armies to wipe them out. The Lord Jesus will then descend from Heaven with His angels and Saints. He will come with great glory riding upon a horse and will destroy the Antichrist, the False Prophet and all of their armies. After this, a loud voice will cry out “It is done!” followed by the greatest earthquake in the earth’s history and hail weighing 120 pounds will fall.

At the end of the Tribulation, there will be another blackout, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken (Matthew 24:29), the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be thrown into the eternal Lake of Fire and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and bound for 1,000 years.


THE MILLENNIUM

The Lord Jesus will reign over the entire earth during the Millennium. The Jewish and Gentile believers who survive the Tribulation will go on to populate the Millennium. Believers who died before and during the Tribulation and believers who were raptured will be present on earth during the Millennium and because they will have glorified bodies they will not reproduce. All believers will be given special tasks by the Lord Jesus (Revelation 20:4-6). There will be no wars (Isaiah 2:2-4), animals will return to the Edenic state and become vegetarians (Isaiah 11:6-9), people will not labour in vain but eat what they plant and inhabit what they build, there will be renovations in the heavens and earth and there will be righteous and unrighteous children born during the Millennium (Isaiah 65:17-25).

At the end of the Millennium, Satan will be loosed from the Abyss and will deceive and gather the unrighteous for a war against the righteous. This will be his final attempt to destroy the righteous and when the unrighteous of the Millennium surround the good people, God will send fire down from Heaven which will suddenly and massively annihilate all of the wicked people. Satan will then be cast into the Lake of Fire where he will remain in torment for eternity (Revelation 20:7-10).


THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT

The Great White Throne Judgment will be the next main event. The old heavens and earth will be done away with and all will stand before God’s throne to be judged (Revelation 20:11-12). Those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be their final and eternal abode (Revelation 20:14-15).


THE ETERNAL ORDER (REVELATION 21 AND 22)

Those whose names are found in the Book of Life will enjoy paradise with God forever. The heavens and earth will be made new and the New Jerusalem will come down upon the earth making the earth like Heaven. All curses from the fall will be removed and the earth will be inhabited by the Triune God (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit), all angels and all of the righteous. The seas, moon, night and sun will be done away with and the glory of God will illuminate the earth. The River of Life will flow from God’s throne, the Tree of Life will bear health-giving fruits and leaves and the name of Jesus will be on the foreheads of all of the righteous.


God’s Plan of Salvation for Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZkDk1GZ7do