Is Nolan Ryan as good a pitcher as we think he is?

Question

Don't get me wrong, Ryan is a great pitcher. But do you think he is the best ever? He threw so many wild pitches and had close to 300 losses. So do you think he should be regarded as the best? Think about Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Pre-steroid Roger Clemens, Phil Niekro, the Paige, and Seaver.

Answer 1

The man threw 7 No Hitters that's hard to argue with. The reason why Ryan lost alot of games is he spent the last half of his career on some bad Astros and Rangers teams.

Answer 2

I saw him pitch several time in games of the week. I can most vividly remember one such as the one another poster mentioned above, where he was very unimpressive in defeat, while still striking out over ten. I also saw him turn in an impressive performance well past 40. One way I can always tell that somebody doesn't really know that much about baseball is if they try to argue that Nolan Ryan was the best pitcher ever. He wasn't. He wasn't even the best pitcher of his own time. If you asked: Was Nolan Ryan, on his best day, the most difficult pitcher of all time to get a hit off from, than I might say "yes." The record for no-hitters is not a fluke. It also doesn't make him the best pitcher of all time. The most important thing a pitcher does is win games. There are no extra points in the standings for if the other team got no hits. And having the most strike outs of all time doesn't mean squat either. Strike outs are exciting and certainly a pitcher who can strike out a lot of batters does have an advantage in some situations. But ultimately, a strike out is no more valuable than an out. There were many great pitchers who played roughly in the same era as Ryan--the early to mid 60's, into the early 80's. The two best are clearly Tom Seaver and Jim Palmer. Seaver's life-time record was 311-205 and his career era was 2.86. He had seven years with 18 or more wins and won three Cy Youngs--that means in three different years, the people who are supposed to be paying the most attention voted him the best pitcher in the league. Palmer had a career record of 268-152. He had also had a 2.86 era, also won 3 Cy Youngs and had a run of eight out of nine seasons during the heart of his career when he won 20 games. Ryan was 324-292 lifetime--only slightly better than a lifetime pitcher. He had a 3.19 lifetime ERA and won no Cy Youngs. I admit, if he had played for better teams, he would have had less seasons barely above .500. He also probably could have been the Cy Young winner in 1981. He definitely was a great pitcher, but he's also definitely a notch or so below pitchers like Seaver and Palmer. Of the other Hall of Fame pitchers of his era--Perry, Carlton, Jenkins, and Niekro, I would probably put him about equal with Carlton and a bit above the other three. Of the pitchers in the generation since, I'd put him behind Maddux, Martinez, and Clemens, HgH or not. I'd also definitely put him behind Gibson and Koufax and Juan Marichal among players who started playing slightly before him. I'd also rank him below Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Pete Alexander, Bob Feller and Warren Spahn. And I've probably forgotten to list a pitcher or two that were better than Ryan.

Answer 3

He's in the top 25 starters of all time, but far from the top 10.

People are blinded by the glitzy stuff - no hitters and strikeouts. While Ryan excelled at both and they are impressive accomplishments, what's not so impressive in assessing his place among the greatest ever is his 1.25 career WHIP, 3.56 ERA and .526 winning percentage. He walked 50% (50%!) more hitters over the course of his career than anyone he ever played the game. I can't see how that's the resume of the best pitcher ever.

I don't buy the argument that Ryan's loss totals are so high because he played for lousy teams. Great pitchers overcome that. As one example, for a majority of his career Tom Seaver played on teams that were as bad, and actually probably worse, than Ryan's, yet he managed to finish with a .603 winning percentage.

Ryan is probably the most unique pitcher of all time, but not the best.

Answer 4

nolan ryan is the greatest pure power pitcher ever
and true to form he got beat around sometimes, when youre throwing a 100mph fastball, guess what? if someone can actually put a bat on it, its going a long long way and sometimes its going to sail half way up the netting, it happens
that does not take away from his total dominance, even to this day he is an amazing specimen, he still runs 6 miles a day, and i think he can still throw into the 90's
and unlike clemens, he really did do it with nothing but work ethic
there are many other pitchers in baseball who were great, but none will ever compare to nolan ryan, none before, none during, and probably none after

Answer 5

he's not the best ever - Walter Johnson gets that title. I'd put Ed Walsh, Christy Mathewson, Pete Alexander, Maddux and Pedro ahead of him as well.

If you look at Ryan's numbers, he was a dominant strikeout pitcher and I believe he has the lowest OAV of all time. The problem was he walked too many batters. He was an incredible physical speciman who threw high 90's his entire career - every pitch - and he was no stranger to throwing 140-150 pitches per game.

He refused to give in to anyone (even pitchers) and wouldn't intentionally waste a pitch or take anything off his velocity, and he did that his entire career.

He was amazing, but not the best.

Answer 6

Nolan Ryan was one of the greatest pitchers ever.

He made his first start for the Mets when he was 19 in 1966. I saw him pitch in one game vs. the Phillies in 1970
@ Shea Stadium. He gave a hit to the second batter in the lineup and then retired 25 in a row before giving up a walk in the 9th inning.

In Game 3 of the NLCS vs. Atlanta in 1969, he was throwing the ball 100 mph. Bob Murphy, Mets' announcer used to call it "Ryan's Express."

I'm still amazed that he only appeared in one World Series, thats with the '69 Mets, when he was only 22, and was still wild, and hadn't yet come into his own. He played on some crappy ballclubs for the Angels and Rangers.

Answer 7

Longevity was his strength. He had great pitching mechanics. Each pitch was based on leg strength. That's why he pitched for so long.

Most of his career was spent on teams that had great difficulty scoring runs. I suppose this was a major reason for his career win-loss record being barely over .500. He was obviously one who possessed exceptional talent with a fastball consistently in the high 90's and occasionally hitting triple digits.

But he was not a money pitcher. As a matter of fact the one time he was called on to win the big one, the Phillies lit him up like a roman candle.

A 300 plus game winner with nearly as many losses. Over 5700 strikeouts and 7 no-hitters puts him in a class by himself but strikeouts don't aways win games as his record proves.

The fact that he never won a Cy Young speaks volumes about his lack of domination. He was never the best pitcher during each year of his career.

I would say if I had to rate Ryan on a scale of 1 to 10, I would have to say he was a 7.

Based on the names you've mentioned, Tom Seaver had the greatest mechanics of any pitcher who ever played the game. Tom "Terrific" was just that!!

Answer 8

I don't think Nolan was the best pitcher ever.But you know what he was one of the Best pitchers that I ever saw in person.He never had the Luck of playing on great teams though-out his Career,I think he was on the Mets in 69 when they Won the WS,but he could really throw the baseball hard.He can still bring it and hes gotta be 60 something,hes old school like Bob Gipson and Steve Carlton.One of the Best I've seen thats for sure.

Answer 9

This is a common debate in statistical circles - often singled out are his high number of losses, a winning percentage only slightly better than that of the teams he played for, a career ERA only a bit better than league average, and his large number of walks issued.

He was good at what he did - that is, throwing fast, hard, and fooling batters. His 7 no-hitters speak for themselves, as do his strikeout numbers. Overall, I wouldn't rank him as one of the, say, top 10 pitchers ever but he was certainly a worthy Hall of Famer and one of the greats.

Answer 10

Ryan was really wild early in his career but he also pitched for some bad teams and piled up some losses. I don't think anyone ever was harder to hit than Ryan and he was as intimidating as anyone. With the number of games he pitched had he pitched his whole career for say the Redsox and Yanks he may have had 400 or more wins.