CHRISTIANS & JEWS - your help please?

Question

Please tell me, what do you make of these statments that I read today on this site? They were all written by Christians, but I'm hoping they do not represent what all Christians feel:

a) 'Judaism finished when Christ died'

b) Christianity completes Judaism

c) You can be a Christian Jew

******** Before you answer please consider:
Can one be a Muslim Christian?
Does Islam complete Christianity?

Do SOME of you understand what I'm getting at? I really hope so... :)

'A true Christian '- then you don't know the Tanakh/'old' testament because it clearly defines what the Jewish messiah must achieve - AND JESUS ACHIEVED NONE OF IT. You are relying on wrongly translated Hebrew.

'ILOVETHE' - so you can define BETTER than Torah who is Jewish? Amazing!!!

You cannot be a 'christian jew' any more than you can be a 'muslim christian'. Judaism and Christianity are totally different and mutually exclusive. There is no such thing as an 'ethnic jew' because jews come from ALL ethnic backgrounds. Name me ONE 'ethnic' Jewish festival - can you? NO - 'cause there aren't any.

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS

A Jew who converts to Christianity = a Christian

A 'messianic jew' = a Christian

A 'completed jew' = a Christian

A 'fulfilled jew' = a Christian

Now do you see?

HOOSIER DADDY - only Judaism gets to define WHO is Jewish. I can't define it, you can't define it, and Christianity can't define it either. Judaism states that if someone embraces ANY other faith, they are no longer Jewish.

ECTERBOB - I wish everyone was as sensitive and rational as you. Yes, that is a great thing to say :)

PEOPLE: please get this: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'CHRISTIAN JEW'. If a Jew follows Christianity, they ARE NO LONGER JEWISH, THEY ARE CHRISTIAN!!!

ILOVETHE - you are wrong :) I too am Jewish. You have parents of two religions, so that is slightly different. But according to Jewish religious law, in fact you are Jewish. But note I'm not telling YOU what you are - yet you are defining my religion on my behalf!

CURLY - we don't believe in hell and non Jews, says Judaism, reach heaven whatever their faith, if they lead moral lives.
You have totally misunderstood what I'm trying to say.

KEYDOTO - you have just made my point for me!!! the fact that you, a clearly intelligent person, thinks that 'messianic judaism' is a legitimate sect OF JUDAISM, is what I'm saying - BECAUSE IT IS NOT.

'messianic judaism' is a CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT. They are not recognised by anyone at all, in the worldwide Jewish community. 'messianics' spend BILLIONS a year trying to convert 'real' Jews to Christianity - 'messianics' ARE CHRISTIANS.

KEYDOTO - for some good reading about the topics you mentioned, I highly recommend these sites:
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/
and http://www.jewsforjudaism.org

-they discuss 'messianics' etc :)

BLESSING - no, Jesus never said that G-d's ETERNAL covenant with the Jews was 'obsolete' or being replaced. Jesus lived and died a practising Jew. He followed Torah and he kept kosher!

The new testament was written DECADES after his death, by men who never met him - Paul included. Jesus was a Jew until the moment he died.

JESUS APPEARS NOWHERE in the 'old' testament. I repeat: nowhere. If you think he does, you are relying on wrongly translated Hebrew.

I know you mean no offence, really I do - but can't you see how absurd it is for a Christian to tell a Jew that their understanding of the Jewish bible is superior??? Are you fluent in Hebrew, then? Do you know the examples of Hebrew words that have been mistranslated over and over?

Answer 1

This is a very good question and some good answers too.

We need more Jews on YA to put the Christians straight about what it means to be a Jew, for too long the Christians have be able to redefine Judaism because Jews tend to keep themselves to themselves too much.

How about terms like an ‘ Islamic Christian ‘ or a ‘ Mormon Muslim ‘ , obviously no one describes people like this , however there is a group called the Christian Atheists ! lol

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/types/christianatheism.shtml

Answer 2

It is certainly my reading of both Hebrew and Christian Scriptures that Jesus was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and was crucified by the Romans as a Jew. (By the way, I'm not Jewish.) All of the apostles were Jewish, and even Saint Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, was a Jew. I don't know if Jesus kept kosher because I don't know if the Christian Scriptures tell us enough to make that determination. Jesus also attended synagogue and quoted the Torah, the Writings and the Prophets regularly. His acceptance of both the Oral Torah and belief in the resurrection of the dead made his position certainly more similar to the pharisees than that of the sadducees, who accepted neither. However, evidence from Christian Scripture indicates that he did not always keep the Sabbath, saying that the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. See Mark 2:27.

The Catholic Church, in its various forms, has recognized that the New Covenant in Christ does not supersede the Covenant made with the People of Israel at Sinai, but does maintain that the Christ event fulfills the Covenant made with Abraham at Mount Moriah. Some of the more conservative reformed churchs continue to adhere to the doctrine of supersessionism, which is--at best--theologically suspect, since it implies either that G-d breaks his promises (which would mean that G-d is not righteous) or that G-d is changeable (which would mean that G-d is not perfect).

Some of the most interesting christological work done recently has put Jesus very much within the context of late Second Temple Judaism, including maybe most conspicuously, Bishop N.T. Wright's "The New Testament and the People of God."

Christianity--like Judaism--does not speak with one voice. Just as Christianity must face its history of anti-Jewish bias, Judaism must look at the 12th Benediction inserted into the 18 Benedictions by the rabbis at Yavneh.

Voltaire once said that, when he saw a Christian beating a Jew, it reminded him of a son beating his father.

Grace be unto you and peace.

Answer 3

a) No, Judaism is a living faith, enriched by many centuries of development

b) No, The Bible both connects and separates Judaism and Christianity

c) Yes and No, here is what I got from Encarta Dictionary
A Jew is:
1. Believer in Judaism
2. Member of Semitic people (member of a Semitic people descended from the ancient Hebrews (Israelites))

So, according to the first definition, the answer is no, since a person cannot embrace two religions in the same time. On the other hand, according to the second definition, the answer is yes, since one's religion has nothing to do with their ethnicity. Moreover, like I posted earlier, once a Jew always a Jew.

Please visit these 2 links. Hopefully they can help you.

Answer 4

a) not at all

b) We believe that Christianity (Christ coming) is the fulfillment and completion of what was started with Jewish law. We believe that Jesus is all over the old Testement. It by no means takes away from the Jewish faith. The bible states that they are quite seperate as the Jewish people do not accept Jesus Christ.

c) Christians believe that you can be Jewish and convert to Christianity. You were born into a Jewish household and you still have the same DNA.

Answer 5

Shall we meet next year in Jerusalem? Does Elijah really drink the angel share? What was the original language spoken, Aramaic? Does the KJV bible translate in Torah? The veil is still in place even when Moses is read To day. I have read Torah in English and believe that the entire Bible is given by the God of Aberham the God of Issac and the God of Jacob, both New and Old Testaments. I know there is nothing like Jewish guilt! The guilt of Barabbas can be washed! Know you are more a spirit being than myself, you are indeed God's chosen people, there is another tribe though. I would be a stranger sodjouring in the land!

Answer 6

I can see where your confusion arises, but I also understand what some of these statements are TRYING to say. If at the very least I can try to explain. Christianity by the very definition of the word describes the people who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself said that He had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. That is why some would say that "Christianity completes Judaism" and since Christianity started from Judaism would be why some (I believe falsely) would say "Judaism finished when Christ died". I personally believe both those statements to be in error but as I said I do understand the basis the their meaning. As for Christian Jews, there IS a sect of Judaism that are call "Messianic Jews". I don't completely understand this one so if any reading could explain it I would be grateful myself. My basic understanding is that Judaism does not accept Jesus as the Messiah, yet Messianic Jews do, I would think that made them Christians by definition but as I said I don't understand it fully myself. To complete my answer since Muslims see Jesus as just another prophet and do not follow his teachings but rather the teachings of a prophet called Mohamed one cannot be a Muslim Christian nor would Islam complete Christianity because to do so they would have had to at least followed the basic tenants of Christianity at some point as Christianity formed from Judaism. Hope this helps!

Answer 7

Hi. It seems that you might be either over-thinking this or over-simplifiying it.

Yes, someone can indeed be a Christian Jew, because Judaism covers more than spiritual beliefs.

Jew
–noun 1. one of a scattered group of people that traces its descent from the Biblical Hebrews or from postexilic adherents of Judaism; Israelite.
2. a person whose religion is Judaism.
3. a subject of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

I am referring here to definition #1, versus definition #2, which appears to be the way you are defining Judaism. An Israelite, who can, in fact, be a Christian.

Now, to those other points you raised:

A. Of course Judaism did not end when Christ died, or there would not still be Jews.

B. Since I don't really know exactly what the person who wrote this means, I would prefer to not risk trying to expound on it.

C. I already covered that one above.

Hope I helped. God bless you. †

Sorry, I missed your additional comments:

While Jesus the person does not appear in the Old Testament, he is there in the verses that specifically refer to him.

It also seems that you are at issue with the title or label of someone calling themselves a Christian. That someone believes in Jesus and has accepted him as Lord and Savior is far more important than what they call themselves.

Just in passing, this is one of the reasons why I avoid affiliation with a specific religious organization. People get all caught up in the 'who' that they are and all the traditions and observances versus having their focus on the 'what' that they should be--an obedient child of God, and member of the body of Christ (the church).

Now why do you object to a Christian telling a Jew that their knowledge of the Jewish Bible is superior? Your own example proved their point. If a christian has no knowledge of what is contained in the Jewish Bible, then by default or otherwise, the Jewish person's knowledge would be superior.

Your statement is tantamount to someone going to Spain, and saying that the Spaniard's knowldege of spanish is not superior to theirs, even though they don't speak a word of spanish. Of course the person who has the greatest knowledge of and proficiency in a subject has the superior knowledge.

Answer 8

A. Their Judaism finished when christ died. Judaism in the real form continues on forever.

B. It does compete with Judaism....people can pick.

C. That is another religion. Doesn't mean that they are real Jews.

I know what you are getting at, but there is no point in arguing against it. Yes you are right, according to Jewish law there is no such thing. "They" however are not following Jewish law and therefore believe that you can be both.

Answer 9

Well Paperback Writer I guess that makes me a Protestant Catholic as I am the result of a mating of the orange and the green. Geeze I didn't know this about myself until just now. Wow I feel no different than I did 10 minutes ago. I would love to meet a Muslim Christian, he or she would have quite a story, oh but that won't happen because the muslims like to kill people to convert. Oh well I guess I will have to content myself with being tolerant of any religion that believes in god as long as they don't promote the killing or slaughter of others not of their faith. Gosh could that be why people fled to the New World do you suppose?

Answer 10

From a different point of view,
A Muslim2s opinion.
a-No:The Messiah and his message rejected so The Torah is not fulfilled ,Judaism is not completed
b-No:Today's Christianity believes in trinity
c-No:A trinitian can not be a Jew.
Muslim Christian :No trinity again
Islam complete Christianity?No , I think Islam completes Judaism,it was The Messiah's duty to spread the Gods religion to the people of the world and lead Jews to clean The Holy Land from idol worshipers.Since he was rejected it was done by Muslims by God's command.
My opinion.
Peace