For those who are evidently so concerned about Catholics and their salvation ...?

Question

... to post earnest but heavily biased web sites that tell us "what we need to know" ...

... to (presumably) be so confident in your mandate from above to judge the state of 1 billion individual souls that you assert "Catholics aren't saved" and consider us a mission field ...

... why do you impose man-made limitations on the Holy Spirit?

What happened to the individual, personal nature of conviction and conversion -- which is His work -- that you insist must occur for one to be Christian? Regardless of your opinion of Catholic doctrine and practice, isn't it presumptuous to say that He does not work *within* Catholicism's structure just because you reject it?

Isn't it arrogant to dismiss an entire milennium and a half of His grace among us -- counting as valid only that which is evident outside the Church since the reformation?

Are you grieving the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:29-31) with your malice toward the Church -- and therefore all those in communion?

Answer 1

Wow. God bless you, Born-Again Catholic. You must have had your coffee already (But you are two full hours ahead of me!)

Answer 2

Christians who belong to the true Church (Catholics and Orthodox) should carefully distinguish two kinds of Christians who do not have fellowship with the Church.

I have met some genuine scholars among evangelical posters, Jim Pettis for one. These Christians are not locked into sola scriptura, and though they teach salvation by faith alone, they understand that a person can fall from grace and lose salvation. As evangelicals, they take Jesus seriously, unlike many mainstream Protestants, for whom Jesus is an interesting historical figure who was not quite progressive enough to embrace abortion on demand and same-sex "marriage."

At the opposite extreme, you have Chris, who doesn't bother to reason, but only to condemn. Let's look at his post today:

"The Holy Spirit doesn't ever disagree with the Bible, as the catholic cult and the catholic false gospel do disagree with the Bible."

Here he has actually troubled himself to compose a sentence. Of course, he misrepresents the original Church as a cult, and he doesn't seem to understand that the Church selected the writings in the Bible. It would be pretty odd for the Church to select writings that don't represent Catholic thinking.

"Catholicism teaches a false gospel of works that leads to eternal hell (Galatians 1:6-9)."

He follows with his standard cut and paste, where he posts a scripture without explanation or understanding, that says nothing about a false gospel of good works. Possibly, he has never actually read Galatians, which deals with the Judaisers who wanted to impose circumcision, dietary restrictions, and Sabbath shackles on new Christians.

Since Chris and a few others do not make reasonable arguments and do not respond to questions, the reasonable response to them is to click thumbs down, which immediately removes their spam from the page, leaving reasonable answers worth consideration.

When those who genuinely seek truth perceive the yawning contrast between the unreasoned, unresponsive cut and pastes of Chris et al. and the well-researched arguments from the original Christians, he actually does a sort of service by revealing the intellectual bankrupcy of his group, which really does have the character of a cult.

Cheers,
Bruce

Answer 3

Hello Born-Again Catholic. Man, what a question ! A big Star is born.
This is so controversial but has so little reason to be so. Roman Catholics, Orthodox Catholics, The Protestant Denominations and those that refer to themselves simply as Christians have so much in common I've never understood the animosity many of the Non- Catholic Christians express towards Christians of the Catholic faith.
We all started out from the same martyrs, Jesus Christ who allowed himself to be degraded and sacrificed in so terrible a manor, the Apostles, most who also were martyred and so many others who followed them.
While many would disagree, we all read from the same basic Bible, that which was first told by Christ's Disciples and Apostles, later written out by hand by Catholic Monks and clergymen and finally becoming the very first Book in the entire history of the world to be printed on a printing press, the Gutenberg Bible. There are a very few differences later brought into the Protestant Bible. Martin Luther, the first of the Protestant Reformers eliminated the Epistle Of James, calling it "A right strawy Epistle" partly because is reflected the belief of man being saved by faith and works, a belief he and most later Protestant Denominations rejected. This epistle was later returned to The Protestant Bible but, to my understanding, with a slight change in one or two lines of verse which originally supported salvation by faith and works, an accepted Catholic belief though still rejected by most Protestant denominations who believe in salvation by faith alone. The Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bibles also differ in the inclusion and exclusion of the 'Apocrypha Books". These are very minor differences.
We all have much more in common. We all believe in Jesus Christ being the Son Of God and the Salvation Of Mankind. We all believe He died in a most grievous way for our sins, rose from the dead and He will return again.
As a child I was taught both by my family and in Catholic Catechism classes that God didn't care which religion we used to worship Him as long as we were true to it. Christ preached love, peace, tolerance and above all, forgiveness. I can never begin to understand how anyone could possibly associate His teachings with animosity, especially against other Christians.


The Best Of the Season to all,

Lenny.

Answer 4

I think that among many people there is a motivation from sincere concern for others. Although that certainly is not true of all, it is true in many cases. What cannot be ignored is the fact that "Rome" and "Geneva" teach a soteriology (the theology of salvation) fundamentally opposed to the others. When a person realizes this, it becomes important to make sure he/she is understanding salvation correctly, and the natural, and might I add most loving, thing to do no matter what religion you are, is to make sure others know what you do. So I think it is okay to judge the content of the posts and links, but more spiritually safe to leave judgment of motive to God. I do think in many cases though, that we are all too often ignorant of the beliefs we criticize. I do criticize certain things within Catholicism, but I have looked at the issues, from both sides. That is something we all should do. Good question BA.

Answer 5

It is total arrogance, as evidenced once again, by Chris's answer.

He, and others like him, are of the Westboro Baptist ilk, and a danger to society.

He, and others like him, have NOT the Holy Spirit within, as evidenced by the putrid lies, division, and hatred they spread.

They consider us a threat - that's the bottom line - because they cannot, nor have they ever been able to, prove us wrong. So they must invent these lies to validate their own beliefs.

Answer 6

God bless you, Born-Again Catholic! that's a very good post. I'm personally weary of the lies of these people who claim they are concerned of the salvation of Catholics.

Answer 7

Amen My beautiful child, Salvation is OURS to lose

Answer 8

Welcome to the throng of people evangelicals like to insult, degrade, and create unflattering Web sites about for the sole purpose of defamation! Irritating, isn't it?

)O(

Answer 9

I like catholics. Very close to God, they have the fear of God in them, that makes them humble

Answer 10

Well....all I can contribute to that is Amen.
Nice post.