What are these people thinking? Do I have to pay them a visit?

Question

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=cp-nhl_ramage_trial&prov=cp&type=lgns

From what I've heard about the Heatley case is that it was simply reckless driving. Alcohol was not a factor.

Ramage was well over the legal limit.

Heatley was young...and was playing with his toy.

Ramage was old enough to know better.

Mags was a great guy. Never turned down a fight, never turtled (never won). Great coach, great man!

Answer 1

Maybe if Magnuson's own family has forgiven Ramage, you might want to consider it as well?

If Ramage was "old enough to know better", you would have to assume that Magnuson was old enough to know better than to get into a car with somebody who had been drinking. By no means am I shifting the blame in any capacity, but I don't believe that any of us can try and put ourselves in either man's shoes that night. I also don't believe it should be your (or anyone else's other than the family of the victim and the justice system's) job to decide what constitutes a suitable punishment. Maybe the family has decided that having to live out the rest of your days knowing that you killed your friend is punishment enough. It just might suit everyone involved much better if he was allowed to devote the rest of his life speaking to people about the dangers of drinking and driving rather than rotting away and wasting tax dollars.

If you got drunk with your friend Cyr(however you spell it) and you decided to get into a car with him and he killed you, if you could pick his sentence, what would you chose for him? Just curious.

Answer 2

I don't know about the US, but proactive justice system/policing is the current anti-crime trend in Canada, especially in Ontario. The theory is to prevent things from happening BEFORE it goes through the already over-clogged justice system through education, like what Ramage's family is proposing, instead of reacting to the problem and punishing the individual (which really does nothing in the long run because a bunch of criminals going to talk about the legal system and loopholes in prison to pass the time anyways). It's kind of like taking the flu shot so you don't get the flu. So far, Toronto Police has several of these types of programs in place for impaired driving, gangs, drugs and smoking, stuff like that. There's a great one for conservative philosophies on prostitution done by Toronto PD and has been adopted by many other metropolitans in North America. (Before anyone gets any thoughts on my personal life, NO, I never went through that system; my old criminology prof, John Mottram, started that program back in the '80s....great man....I would take a bullet for him.)

I'm having a hard time reading if you're on the yay or nay side, LITY, but I'm not opposed to this at all. In fact, I think it's a great idea, and really helps take some weight off the system. I'm sure the Ramages want something good coming out of Keith's death and this is a fantastic way to do so. Also, didn't Snyder's family do the same kind of forgiving for Heatley?

Can't....stop.....must...go....on....! Staying with proactive justice system, there are also some Aboriginal tribes who uses the same kind of method for Heatley's and Magnuson's situation. Basically, the "subject" and the victim (support from both sides are also welcome as long as it's agreed) sit in the same room with a mediator and talk about what happened. Just to keep this simple, if the subject apologizes to the victim and s/he accepts the apology, then there's no need to go to court. If not, well, charges are laid and it could go to court. RCMP uses this method a lot because, again, the system is overflowing.

I think I'm done.

Oh, I should point out that studies and stats have shown the proactive system has been more effective than reactive (ie. prison sentences) in the past 15-20 years.

Guru: you're right, lots of judges haven't said that; they just implied it. And you'd be surprised at how many times that has happened.

Answer 3

Tough one, one the one hand he should pay for his crime- and it was a crime. On the other maybe he can do more good educating others.

Heatley was reckless driving-booze not involved.

I can see why the family would want leniency, it will not bring their dad back. In terms of responsibility he choose to get in the car with Ramage so they may feel a bit of joint fault there. Also they are privy to info we don't know about their dads relationship with Ramage.

There may be some good from the community service, however you don't want to portray the athlete gets off image either so I would suggest Mr Judge a slightly reduced sentence say 1-2 yrs jail with community service.

Answer 4

I think he has to do some time. Maybe the judge might be lenient because of what Magnuson's family has said but the bottom line is he still broke the law.
If you start bending the law it sets a precedent for later cases, then what is the judge going to tell the next guy "sorry you have to go to jail because the family of the guy you killed hasn't forgiven you yet." It doesn't matter how nice the guy was or that he was forgiven, he broke the law, end of story.

Answer 5

Ramage should be thankful it happened in a country that doesn't send drunk drivers to the gallows. There are places where that does happen.
I understand the anger and outrage many are feeling. I can name at least 10 people I knew who were killed by drunk drivers; including four members of my family. It just doesn't seem right that the individual who drove drunk should not be made to pay as high a price as possible for what they did. They deprived us of sharing any more time with people who were important to us. But that is anger talking and emotions tend to fuzzy up logic and lead us to make rash, knee-jerk decisions.
For logic to prevail we need to remove or bury the anger and look at how we can get something out of this that may do more good. What does anyone gain while he's in prison? It will cost roughly $50,000 per year to send the guy to jail. And when it's all over and he's freed he could just go and do it again. There's no guarantee and we've seen it happen hundreds of times. Many drunk drivers are repeat offenders.
I think the proposed solution will force Ramage to confront what he did and admit it over and over to thousands of strangers. He will have to live in the now, expressing what he did wrong, how he feels, how it ruined his own life and maybe just maybe in the process, he actually gets through to enough people that the difference will be seen in reduced impaired drving deaths.
I don't think it's getting off easy. I think it may be more theraputic to the Magnusson Family to see something positive come from Keith's death rather than just planting Ramage's butt in jail.
I think they should be commended for their ability to separate emotion from logic to try and find another way to get drunks off our roads. I hope they get their wish. I think there's been enough tragedy and suffering already.

Answer 6

Is there a difference between drunk driving homicide and reckless driving homicide? They were both adults and should have know better. I'll never forget Keith's play and presence on the ice. Didn't know him like you, but if he was half the man he was a player ...he was quite a guy.

Answer 7

It states, "Magnuson's family asked the judge to sentence Ramage to community service instead of jail time so he can speak at schools about drinking and driving".

I think it is stupid, but some people are crazy religious, and feel the need to forgive to be able to move on in their lives. I assume the Magnuson family are some genuinely religious people, but I could be way off. What would I know? I am Catholic, and we’re only part-time holy. ;)

Oh, yes, and I wear a size 7.

Answer 8

The Crown has a job to do regardless of how the victim's family feel about it. Either society comes down hard on drunk drivers, or else we can just go back to days when it just a joke.

Answer 9

I don't think you can compare the two cases. Danny was not impaired. Other than they were both hockey players killing other hockey players in a vehicular accident, I don't see any similarities.
Both cases are tragic though. Interesting how both victims families "sided" with the so called bad -guy.

Answer 10

That's messed up. Ramage should be locked up as should anyone else that drives drunk. vehicular homicide while driving drunk is even worse still. there's a huge difference between an accident and a drunk driving homicide and Heatley doesn't deserve mention in this topic whatsoever because of that.