Why does everyone assume 'new' breeders are BYB's?

Question

Ok so I'm going to get flamed for this but I am a reputable breeder, I have references etc do all health checks, vet check all homes, take all puppies back if the owners can't keep them, would offer to take all puppies back if I ever found out that one of my dogs I've bred from had a hereditary problem, never breed more that one litter every three-four years, not just for the dogs but so I know if I did need to take all puppies back for whatever reason I could! etc. etc.

But I had to start somewhere and so did all other breeders.

So why are all 'new' breeders called BYB's? We were all new at somepoint and I know your all going to tell me about the problem in Rescue centres but I'm NOT contributing to that because all my dogs are sold with a contract saying they're to be returned to me and I have regular contact with rescue centres to ensure none of my pups end up there.

I know there are some people on here who shouldn't be breeding but why everyone?

I agree Mutt - As I said, I totally agree that there are some people that really shouldn't be breeding. But that doesnt mean ALL new breeders are BYB's

Loki I completely understand why you get frustrated. And as I've said I agree that some of the people on here shouldn't be breeding.

All I'm saying is that not every new breeder is a BYB.

Byb's - Im not defending backyard breeders in the slightest. I've actually said a number of times some people should not be breeding. I have also reported a number of puppy farmers to the RSPCA.

Also how am I not breeding to improve the breed? ALL my breeding dogs have done VERY well in shows before I even consider breeding from them I then travel the country for stud dogs whose temperament, pedigree and colouring match mine as close as possible

Also I have monthly contacts with ALL my puppy's owners so I know how theyre doing - that's how I know theyre not in shelters

Were going to have to agree to disagree on whether or not I'm supporting BYB's. I still say I'm not. If you look at my question I say there are some people who clearly shouldn't be breeding. Questions like "How do I know my dog's ready to breed" and "Why won't my dog hump my b*tch?" Should really be covered by research LONG before you think about breeding and I'm the first to say that!

All I'm saying is that not all new breeders are BYB's. I never said that people should start with breeding.

Sure it's possible - but then I have no control over that. I am doing all I can to prevent my dog's ending up in rescue centres. Also most rescue centres check for microchips, the dogs are sold microchipped back to me and yes I know they can change it but I also know some dont because it costs. I know this because it wouldn't be the first time Ive had a call about one of 'my' lost dogs!

And no it's not possible for someone to just say they spayed/neutered their *****/dog because I get proof that they've all been done.

I'm not worried about what people think of me or mt breeding programme, it was just a general question because EVERY question about breeding has most replies saying "Don't breed your a BYB. And while I understand that people shouldn't really be asking here I just think it's a little unfair to say that about ALL new breeders."

Liz please re-read my question

For genetic testing - I.. "do all health checks" "would offer to take all puppies back if I ever found out that one of my dogs I've bred from had a hereditary problem"

For improving the breed - "ALL my breeding dogs have done VERY well in shows before I even consider breeding from them I then travel the country for stud dogs whose temperament, pedigree and colouring match mine as close as possible"

Jordie - http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjJnUFgNh7EaMjZdBZt5gC8zLxV.;_ylv=3?qid=20071217230644AAz8mVo
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AhGiqKq2ffidOXD1wkDBxYkgBgx.;_ylv=3?qid=20071107050412AAyj7M3

As far as I'm concerned there are two people asking a q on Yahoo answers who aren't a BYB

Answer 1

The 'Ethics for breeding'. As far as i can see, you are doing ALL of this and more!

1. The only reason to be breeding purebred dogs is to preserve the best qualities of the breed. Breeding to supply any market is not a justification. --- Yep you're doing that

2. You need to do all of your breeding with the best interests of the breed in mind. Never your pocket book. --- Another Yes

3. For this you need to be a serious student of the breed and devote years of your life to it. No "in one day, out the other". --- once again, being done

4. As a beginner you need to engross yourself in the breed as much as possible and ideally find a suitable mentor. --- Would two mentors count? In my books it does!

5. In order to be a serious breeder, you must show and compete. --- Ive seen you in the show ring with one of your Cavaliers many times, and seen his results! this is a Definite yes!!!!


6. You need to keep track of all puppies you produce, whether pet or show, to know how your breeding program is working. ---- Yep!


7. All pet dogs need to go on a spay/neuter contract. --- Yep another one being done


8. All show puppies need to go on a contract that will not allow breeding unless the dog lives up to the quality intended and passes all health checks and certification necessary for that breed. If a prospective breeder does not want to do this, then I am sorry but they will have to mess with someone else's dogs not mine!! ---- Another yes!

9. Every breeder owes to the breed and to themselves to be involved with rescue. --- Yep! How many times are you called with a 'Can you take this dog'?

10. Every breeder should be prepared to take any dog back for whatever reason. If they do not have the space, then they need to be prepared to make other arrangements. But take back they must! --- another yes!

Well i think 10/10 for the breeding ethics makes you an excellent breeder despite what certain people here have said!

Answer 2

I don't consider all new breeders BYB. But, like many have said...breeding should start after you have researched and studied the breed. You shouldn't start with breeding...you should start purchasing a dog, showing it and learning from mentors. Also, testing should be done and breeding not done until they are at least 2 years old. I started with a couple cockers first. They didn't pan out to what I thought they would be quality wise...but they brought me to a group of people who could steer me in that direction. I finally bought a show quality dog that I could finish and breeding started there. I had been a cocker spaniel owner for 5 years before I had my first litter.
you sound like you have the right heart and the right idea, however, I didn't see anything said about testing for genetic diseases. I also didn't see you say anything about bettering the breed or improving the breed...just breeding nice dogs and selling responsibly. I think you have the right idea in some aspects, but i think you need to really look at the reasons why you are breeding and the goals you are trying to achieve.

Answer 3

I've yet to see a question from any "new" breeders that have any right to be breeding. Please post a link to a question from somebody I shouldn't consider a backyard breeder. There are several people on here that are respectable conformation breeders or working dog breeders. But THEY dont ask questions! Anybody that breeds needs a REASON to breed ie. betterment of the breed (proven through conformation or working trials). It's fine if someone is a new breeder, but I don't know anyone respectable, that would be asking questions on here. They would ask their mentor, if a new "breeder" doesn't have a mentor or someone they can ask questions.... well again, I dont think they should be breeding becasue NOBODY knows everything and all conformation breeders share with each other when they can.

Answer 4

I would suspect that anyone asking questions about breeding on Yahoo Answers is a backyard breeder. It is a place to get advice - not guaranteed to be reliable or correct.

A reputable breeder would call another breeder or contact their governing club (aka Labrador Club of America) or contact their vet with breeding questions. They wouldn't ask on an open forum where amateur breeders and uneducated pet owners frequent.

Additional note: Many of the people that answer questions regarding pets and breeding are rescue or humane society volunteers. They see the results of uncontrolled and bad breeding and may even have put down animals or seen them put down, and thus they're answers to any breeding question is simple - don't do it. I am one of those; I volunteer for a lab rescue (the most commonly backyard bred dog in the U.S.) and even when people breed properly, I still don't agree with it. I will respect it, but I don't agree with it. I have a friend who has a vet degree and is getting a phD in veterinary pathology and she has a 6 month old registered lab.My friend already has plans to have her dog's elbows and hips tested next summer. If she fails, she will have her spayed. If she passes, she will test again and plans to breed her. She is very well educated regarding breeding and is doing it right, but I still don't agree with it. I will respect the decision but I can't make myself agree with it.

My 9 month old beautiful chocolate labbie was spayed at 6 months by our rescue just before I got her. My little shelter doggie is a one of kind to me, but she is a dime a dozen at shelters. I just can't agree with breeding when there are so many dogs without homes and so many that are put down each day.

Added: I live in Oklahoma - number two in puppy mills and backyard breeders behind Missouri and followed by Kansas - so I live smack dab in the middle of all of this.

Answer 5

I understand, eventually i wanna become a breeder, but like I've told people time and time again... I wanna become a breeder, but not yet. I am going to put alot of research into it, as already started... already have a vet to help, everything, but I know people on here would be very mean about the whole thing. I say it's not bad, as long as u keep track of where ur puppies go, and make sure none end up in pounds. Only advice I would give you, would be to have the buyer sign a contract stating to have the pup micro chipped, when it becomes of age... And u want proof to ensure it be done... what way u know they are resposible... My only bit of advice...

Answer 6

Dog breeding is dealing with living creatures.
It isnt something you start then research. You should know what youre doing and have a number for an experienced breeder(s), vet(s) and anyone else you might need handy.

There isnt a question in the world that you should come to this forum to ask if youre already in the process of breeding.

Answer 7

eh.. I have no problem with people breeding dogs... I do it myself.

I put years of research into the dogs I was going to work with well before I started breeding.

I had several mentors, each who had different things to teach me... including structure, genetics, how to read a pedigree etc..

I attended seminars on reproduction, breeder's seminars (about the breed), puppy selection, rearing puppies etc... I audited a class on reproduction at my local veterinary college. I made friends with 2 of the leading veterinary reproductive specialists in my area (when I moved one of them assisted me in finding a new vet I could deal with).

I spent several years working breed rescue before I ever bred and I TRULY believe this gave me a great foundation in what the breed is/should be.

Edit: I developed the moral and ethical fortitude as well as knowing I had done everything possible I could do BEFORE I ever bred. A responsible breeder never will feel guilty or defensive regarding the choices they've made because they KNOW they have done their best to do it correctly, and they have the resources behind them (time, $$, mentors, veterinary care) to assist them if they need help.

Answer 8

Now, that accusation is just not fair. We do not think all new breeders are BYBs. We call the stupid ones BYBs.

For example:
"Where should I find a website where people can mate their dogs with my cockapoo?" Puh-LEASE, cockapoos are not a breed!
"My dog's been trying to have her puppies for 5 hrs now what do i do??" It's called a VET!!

Those questions are examples.

SERIOUS questions from new, but very dedicated breeders:
"Which should I breed: bitches with incorrect head and feet or ones with perfect conformation except for a wobbly gait, to a stud dog with perfect conformation but a severely wobbly gait?" are fine because they're really trying their best. It's obvious to differentiate between new BYBs and new reputable breeders.

Answer 9

New breeders may have to start somewhere but YA is not the place for their start. Questions about breeding and whelping should be answered by a mentor or a vet.
If people are coming here and asking how to breed, when to breed, what to do when the b itch is whelping and asking for medical advice they are BYBs because reputable breeders, new or otherwise would have better resources than YA answers.
The reason most asking questions here are assumed to be BYBs is because of types of questions that they ask.

Answer 10

The problem I have is that they *start* with breeding.

The "we have to start somewhere, so why not by breeding our two dogs?" thing doesn't fly with me. How do you know that you're breeding quality dogs if you don't know anything about the breed?

How about "starting" with working your breed, or showing it, or doing something with it that causes you to learn something about it, so that when the time comes to breed, you know you have good dogs to do it with?

I was running sled dogs for 5 years before I ever even considered breeding, and that was only to build my own team. I showed dogs for 4 years before I decided I'd learned and done enough to correctly breed a litter -- turns out I had plenty still to learn, but at least I'd learned something!

My question is, why is it that the "somewhere" people want to start is with breeding? Why do you have to jump right in, when all you know about your breed is that you like them and you have two "with papers"?

I appreciate that you take all of these steps for your own litters, and I applaud you -- but can you see where some of us might get frustrated?

ADD: Bassetnut's surgeon analogy was excellent. In my perfect, Loki-Eden world, there would be no "New Breeders" -- only people who had been involved with a breed for awhile and had finally decided to whelp their first litter.