Yet another question for Wiccans?

Question

As I said in an earlier question, I'm reading Cunningham's Solitary Guide and he blithely pops this statement in:

"Magic is a method whereby individuals under none but self-determined predestination take control of their lives."

He then totally ignores this statement and continues on. What I'm asking is does this mean that at some point we have already decided the general path our lives will take, whether we realise it or not, and magic is a tool for us to use to stay on that path? Or have I totally misread his meaning? It's quite a statement to just drop in there and then ignore. :)

bregweidd, Head of CA - It seemed to be contradictory to me too, but then I thought that self-determined predestination is only contradictory if you believe you only have one life. You could determine your destiny in the next life if you had many lives. But I'm new to this so I'm probably way off base. :)

Thank you everyone. Your explanations make sense to me. I was beginning to wonder if this was all to far beyond me. :)

Nightwind -I haven't read too far yet. It's on page 22.

GodSent - I've read the bible. I'm not the least bit interested in your views.

Answer 1

What you have to realize is that no Wiccan author is an infallible authority on everything. I personally don't like all of Cunningham's views.

My own definition of magic is the accumulation and direction of your own energy to a specific purpose. I'm not completely sure what he's saying with predestination.

I highly suggest you check out http://wicca.timerift.net if you feel a little confused about things you are reading. It gives the generally agreed-upon interpretations of all things Wiccan, it also has an excellent booklist and gives a general idea of what are the strengths and weaknesses of various Wiccan books.

Answer 2

I'm pretty much with Prarie on this, hun.

But I think what he's probably saying might be better phrased as:
"Magic is a method whereby individuals take control over their own lives. These people have no defined fates or predestinations except, perhaps, any they have chosen for themselves."

What makes Llewellyn so loathed a press is atrocious editing and fact checking. This is an atrociously edited line, and a typical one to boot.

The book you're reading is about as low-level as you can get without it being written in rhyme. I imagine the editors missed this line, or couldn't figure out how to make it monosyllabic.

I really think that the way to learn is via a tradition, even if you leave the tradition later, because authors like Cunningham are trying to explain things in generalities, and a good seeker wants specifics.

Take Buckland's big blue book, for example. That book is mostly about Seax-Wicca. While there are HUGE problems with Seax-Wicca, it doesn't leave terms undefined or lack elders you can write to and ask questions of.... That book, at least, is consistant. Cunningham, in trying to cobble a little bit here and a little bit there, is not.

He's like the reader's digest of Wicca in general, as opposed to instruction in a tradition.

Answer 3

It might help if you could share a page number so I could see what else he was saying, but yes, on the surface "self-determined predestination" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The best I can guess is that he's paraphrasing Crowley's definition of magick: change in conformity with one's Will, where Will is ones True Will, the divine purpose they have in this existence. In Crowley's mind, we all have a purpose and we should strive to fulfill that purpose. Magick is anything we undertake in pursuit of that purpose. However, we are not automatically destined to fulfill that purpose. If we chose to just sit on the couch we shouldn't expect anything to happen. If that's what Cunningham is referring to, "predestination" is definitely the wrong word, but that may be what he was trying for.

Excellent question!

Answer 4

I can see why you're confused. I haven't read Cunningham (I've heard good things and bad things), and I'm completely clear on what he's talking about until he gets to "predestination." There are some who believe that witches (and there for most of Wiccans) are born witches and not made witches (not that you can't study witchcraft, but it's far more natural to some), and maybe that's what he's talking about? That we're aware we're different innately and need to travel a different path away from the norm? I have heard that from several teachers, and I would *guess* that's what he's referring to, but he says it in a very twisty way.

I'll be interested to see what other people say.

)O(

Answer 5

An interesting question.

I don't think that's quite what Cunningham means; I interpret that statement to mean that magic is an act of personal will, entirely self-determined, by which the individual takes control of their destiny and thus "predetermines" the outcome of certain events.

I could well be wrong, though.

Answer 6

Self determination and exercise, all the way, to PRE-DESTINATION is not mutually exclusive.

For instance, I am attacked over this, ALL THE TIME. Until I believed in the unseen, and the discredited, and the ANIMALS, then I had no chance, to know God.

See page 1, Qur'an. Don't throw a cow if you don't know how.

But if I WIN, I fall into place, like THAT, in a heavy angel role.

Answer 7

how do you have "self-determined predestination"?

that seems a bit contradictory to me

if my path is self-determined, than I am deciding it along the way. If it is predestined, than I'm following a path not of my choosing.

Answer 8

I prefer Crowley's definition of Magick, being the art and science of causing Change in accordance with Will. So, your fate, predestination, etc., are all things you are in control of. You only have to do your Will.

Answer 9

it's a florid attempt to define magic. wiccans have been struggling with that definition for years. all he's saying is that magic is a way to subtly alter the energy patterns that affect you life.