With all the violence and National problems is it time we bring prayer back too school?

Question

Probably not mandatory but publicly? Please have better argument than seperation of Church and state!

i grew up in a time when prayer was allowed,
that reminderof acknowledgeing a Divine power was key in our society to keeping us on track,we have lost track folks look around you!

sorry about m/s!

I for one am for having prayer over intercome. thoughts!

Not forcing anybody into religion folks it is prayer.

We live in Democracy in a Democracy majority rule As a Christian Nation I believe it should be Chritian prayer with oppurtunities for others on their major Holidays to do likewise and oppurtunity to step out if they object>

Think people where are we going are we heading the right way!!

Thank you all for good answers! appreciated, However I feel we have to make stand somewhere we just cant keep because a special intrest group arises say we have to take away the majority way of life and beliefs if weve become a special intrest nation and no true compass like all great nations we are lost. We the people means,We the people I agree but we need to look at what foundation of Nation has been and will be a Christian nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This is the most incredible place on earth many countries would just crush us for thinking this way we have been blessed by our creator. Praise be to the name of Jesus Christ!

Answer 1

I should think that it would be obvious that kids who grow up knowing that they are special to the heart of God would automatically have more respect for themselves, and for others.
As Pilgrim says, "Separation of Church and State" is a bumper-sticker for idiots, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with our Constitution. The phrase NEVER appears in any of our legislative documents.
Kids DO have the right to pray in school.
It is called "Freedom of religion."
Christians have just been conditioned to believe that, somehow, they are violating the law (which doesn't exist) by practicing their religion publicly.
Horse hockey!
By keeping your light under a barrel, however, you ARE violating the law...
The Law of God!!

Time for Christians to either stand up for what we believe! Stop being cowards, letting others tell us to sit down and shut up!
Remember what the original disciples were willing to suffer for our faith! They did that for love, folks!
Should we do any less???????

Answer 2

The only problem I have with that is to whom do we pray. What I'm getting at is that no matter what its still asking others who may not share the same faith or those who have no faith to endure something they would rather not be apart of. This is not a Church vs State comment but rather one of personal preference. Example: all you said was "prayer" so that could mean anything. A Hindu holds a prayer gathering in front of the school that is composed primarily of southern Baptist. I’m sure they would take issue with that, but even if it was only one is the affront any less predominant.

I'd like to also add that this issue is NOT confined to those of the Christian faith, it involves all of them. People should try and remember that even though there are a great deal of Christians there happens to be a fare ammount of other religions as well.

I don’t think you fully explored the idea of majority rule. Again you are asking people to forgo their personal beliefs in place of allowing outside sources decide matters of faith. Try putting the shoe on the other foot. Imagine that you are the minority and that prayer represented by another faith was used. I doubt you would feel any kinship to it or even see how it applies to you. In fact, you would probably be more offended than you would be grateful that you live in a society where majority rules.

Again, I still stand by my comments, you will still be placing people in situations they would rather not be in, even one person is one too many.

Answer 3

I cannot see how encouraging people to go through a ritual that may be meaningless to them is going to help against violence and other problems. In fact, I would have thought the opposite to be true - teaching people to pretend would seem to encourage a falseness and disconnection from reality.

I am more than happy for people who believe in prayer (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) to do this in their own contexts, but school is a place where people from many different faiths and none come together. It is not appropriate to have public prayer in this context.

Don't you think the separation of church and state is a good idea? Wouldn't it look different to you if we were talking about separation of mosque and state? We build a strong country through what we can share with our fellow citizens, not by vaunting what divides us.

Incidentally, I'm in the UK where we have an established church and compulsory "broadly Christian" assembly in schools. This is now honoured more in the breach than the observance, because it makes for such conflict among pupils and staff. With any luck, we'll be completely rid of it soon.

Answer 4

No, we have a Moment of Silence for praying, etc. in school. Besides, at my school there is a variety of differing religions in school, it would be unfair to have ONE religion picked out, even if it's the majority. Think of it, if you were at school, and (assuming your Christian) Islamic prayers were said, with no regards to your Christian beliefs, would you like that?

Violence and national problems have nothing to do with prayer in school, why do most Christians think that? It's not a religious problem, it's a parental problem! If the parent would just raise the child right (and not necessarily Christian, either, I know a lot of peaceful and very nice atheists, more so than nice and peaceful Christians) there wouldn't be that much violence. Most violence in this country is committed by Christians, btw. As for national problems, all nations have them, with or without prayer.

See, one can make a (hopefully successful) argument regarding prayer in school without resorting to the separation of church and state, though that is another component to the debate. ^_^

Answer 5

Voluntary prayer is already allowed in public schools. Students can voluntarily pray individually and in groups. Students can form after school bible clubs if other non-curriculum clubs are allowed to meet.

Once a school official starts publicly leading a prayer, it is no longer voluntary. Also it puts students who are not the majority religion in a position where they either have to pretend to be the majority religion or call attention to the fact that they AREN'T the majority religoin by refusing to participate.

Also, what are teachers who are NOT the majority religion supposed to do ? Will TEACHERS be REQUIRED to lead prayers of the majority religion to keep thier jobs ? That is a religious test for public office.

Will students of minority religions be allowed to lead prayers ?

If a school is an area where the majority religion is something other than Christian, do you think the Christians would enjoy being subjected to non-Christian prayers ?

During the time period when many public schools MANDATED Christian prayer & bible study, discrimination and violence against blacks (lynchings, etc) happened alot, so I don't understand why anyone thinks that FORCED prayer or QUASI-optional prayer (not really forced, as long as you bring a note from home, or you opt out, and then risk being bullied by the religious majority) is a panacea for all of our social ills. Mandatory prayer did not stop anyone from lynching blacks. Mandatory or quasi-mandatory prayer is not going to solve our social ills, but will only heighten divisions amoung our students, and give students ONE MORE REASON to bully other students.

Source below:
Article one: Religion in Public schools, a joint statement of public law.

Article two: A public school which illegally instituted FORCED prayer, bible reading and worship and allowed students to bully a non-Christian student because she refused to participate.

Article three: An evangelical Christian goes to a public school in Hawaii, where the pre-games prayers are of a non-Christian variety. He is now against public school prayers. Interesting read !

edited to add: This quote comes from a ruling that said JW's could NOT be forced to pledge the flag (the MAJORITY tried to use VIOLENCE to FORCE JW's to violate their religion and pledge the flag. Here's the quote.

"Jackson wrote, “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.” (West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette at 642)"

The bill of rights was deliberately placed in our constitutions to prohibit the "tryanny of the majority". Just because the majority of this country calls themselves Christians, does not give them the right to FORCE anyone else to participate in their Christian rituals. Christians, like all other citizens are free to assemble with like minded believers and worship and praise, but contrary to all the whining, preventing a Christian from FORCING their beliefs on others is NOT persecution. And FORCING non-Christian teachers to lead students in prayer, and FORCING non-Christian students to listen to it is not OK.

Does the WHITE majority still get to bully the non-white minorities because they are the majority ? Didn't think so, so the Christian majority doesn't get to bully the non-Christian minority either.

And if you don't think Christians can turn into bullies when they are given the upper hand, read my second article.

Answer 6

Ummm maybe you'd like to look at the recent shootings here in Colorado - they were CAUSED by religion and the church elders inability to deal with and adequately counsel a young man - so he shot up a missionary school he used to attend, and a church before killing himself.

I see NO REASON why YOUR religion should be imposed on ALL of the students - publicly or mandatory. Sorry, but there are enough problems in a school on a daily basis without teachers having to offend their muslim, jewish, buddhist, wiccan, hindu, etc students by insisting that Christianity should be first and foremost. It's as bad as when i was in school as a child and they insisted we all write with out right hands! Sorry, we're not all wired that way; we don't all believe that way.

BTW, you live under a misconception - religion IS in schools. In all the years I have taught, exceptions have always been made for students with religious needs - holidays where they must miss school- like Ramadan. Dietary needs for those who cannot religiously eat what the school is serving, so alternative meals are provided. Most schools allow religious groups to use the facilities after school and on weekends.

Prayer happens in the schools EVERY DAY - by students, teachers and other staff.

Religion never left the schools, you just want it force fed, with prayer as a must and religion being taught as a subject.

Religion is also taught, BTW - in world history classes - as an OBJECTIVE subject when talking about the culture and development of that culture. However,they talk about many religions, not just yours.

Having family that went to religious schools, having friends who went, their children who go, neighbors who go or went, I'd rather send my kids to a public school where religion is NOT mandatory. Want to know why? Even as far back as the 1950s, religious schools have had MORE teen pregnancies (taught no birth control), wider in shool violence - fighting, weapons, racial slurs, etc), more drug and alcohol use that the standard "bad" pubic school in a "bad" neighborhood.

Tell me, how is that BETTER for our youth then?

EDIT- THis is NOT a Christian nation. This is a nation of diverse peoples, cultures and beliefs. You want a Christian nation? The get the president to sector off a few states- I suggest the Northwest coast and border with Canada - Washington, Idaho, Montana - and everyone who wants to live in a Christian only nation can move their behinds up there and leave the rest of us to enjoy and embrace the diversity that is America. reread what the founding fathers had to say - them believing in god doesn't mean they made this a Christian only nation. IN fact, ESCAPING religious tryanny is one of the main reasons we're even ON this continent! Learn your damn history and drop the Christian Nation crap.

Second EDIT - Prayer over the intercom is FORCING others to participate in religious practices they do NOT want to participate in and their parents don't want them participating in. Do you NOT understand the number of lawsuits and problems this would cause the school? Is the school there to teach our children to read, write, calculate, prepare them for the world, or is it there to create divisiveness??

The fact that you CANNOT see the problems a forced prayer - and over the intercom is indeed forcing everyone to listen- says a great deal. Please put your children in a religious school if that is what you want for them, but leave the rest of us out of it.

You clearly do NOT understand that to many religious folk, the beliefs and practices of Christianity are VERY offensive. Would you tolerate someone coming into your children's schools, passing out prayer rugs and insisting the students all face Mecca and pray? That the girls must be covered head to foot if they are even allowed in the schools at all? NO YOU WOULDN'T and you know it. What you are proposing is EXACTLY the same.

Oh, and before the "well they should go home" crap starts - this IS their home. Their ancestors came over just like ours did, they were born american citizens and were promised the freedom of their religion - JUST LIKE YOU.

Answer 7

Public prayer is allowed in my school. Since when are students not allowed to take the free time they have (lunch, passing periods, etc.) and pray? Separation of church and state has never dictated that this is not allowed; it dictates that MANDATORY prayer, or teacher-led prayer is not allowed.

As an atheist, I disagree completely with mandatory prayer. For obvious reasons. But if someone in front of me is praying--even if she prays that the lord smite-eth all the atheists-eth--I wouldn't care. It's not my business.

Answer 8

Yes all pray.

Lets all hope an imaginary supernatural being will solve all our problems while the other faiths come along and destroy us. Good idea.

Shouldn't it be time for education. Let's stop trying to shift problems off on something that does not exist. Take some responsibility and know that we need to solve issues about humanity, not make excuses. Stop asking for pretend beings that DO NOTHING to intervene. Get your head out of the clouds and take on some responsibility!

Answer 9

You have the right to pray in school, you just canl;t be forced. The two supreme court cases Engle V. Vitale and Lemon V. Kurtzman pretty much cover this issue. The state can neither PROHIBIT nor MANDATE religous practices. So maybe you should look up our constutional rights that give you the right to say what you want and do what you wany before you start talking.

Plus we have time in school to pray, anytime that is free time ( trust me we have enough of it in school) you can pray all you want.

Answer 10

I don't know. I think taking prayer out of school was symptomatic of bigger problems in our culture. If we focus on school prayer, I think we're diverting our energy away from solving the bigger problems.

As for me, I don't want the state or the school teaching my kids how to pray. That's my job.