Would missionaries better understand Jewish objection to their "Messianic Judaism" conversion attempts if...

Question

Judaism were to create a religious sect that called itself the real Christianity because it rejected worship of and through Jesus but brought people to "fulfilled Christianity" through living in the same belief that Jesus followed.

We could show them how they honor Christianity by seeing Jesus as a fully human man who hoped to do the job of messiah but failed.
They could not celebrate Easter because it is is adapted Astarte/Isis fertility goddess worship and the celebration of the "rebirth" of Adonis/Tammuz bringing spring, where offerings of eggs and things associated with fecundity were given to placate those pagan deities. So to best honor Christianity and the faith of Jesus, they would have to eschew Easter and any attempt to believe that he was resurrected. That way they would be the REAL and "fulfilled" Christians.
Jews won't do this absurd thing, but would it make Christians see how wrong it is to call Christianity Judaism? It should offend good Christians, too. Shalom.

An addendum to the question for Christians: How can YOU help teach Christians to respect the right of Jews and Jewish law to determine what is and isn't Judaism...just as Jews respect the right of Christians to determine for themselves what is and isn't Christianity?
Since this is actually a problem affecting both religions (although because their beliefs are Christian doctrine, it is easier to see why Christians embrace them.. BUT they are really not doing Christianity a favor by honoring a group that misrepresents ANOTHER faith group )
Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This does not exclude righteous Christians. Judaism does not teach us to hate Christians. Are these "messianics" teaching to hate the very people they wish to identify themselves as being by claiming Jews are bigoted to them because they believe in Jesus? We don't hate them believing in Jesus,we hate Judaism being HIJACKED. BIG difference.
Please respect us.

greengo..there were several hundred sects of Christianity by the third century and while it is almost impossible to know what the "original" Christians believed in whole today..your points are irrelevant to the question as asked. Christian doctrine of the New Testament is what is being spoken of here as well as it's contradiction to Jewish law and misrepresentation of both religions.

IF this question were about a schism within Judaism, speaking about the origins of Christianity versus the New Testament and modern Christianity may have some validity.

Since this question is NOT speaking about a schism within Judaism, but an assault ON Judaism from a different religion..a replacement theology, attempting to REdefine Jewish law in contradiction to Torah and what every sect of Judaism believes. Judaism IS a messianic faith. The Jewish concept of messiah is simply a very different concept than that of Chrisitanity.

greengo, I respectfully suggest you may wish to learn more about Judaism if you believe that Judaism is at all about "race". There is no Jewish "race" as anyone may become fully Jewish through adoption of Judaism. http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/ is a good place to start. Shalom

I wasn't reading too carefully earlier..I think greengo implied that the Mormon's fit the description I posited when she said such a group exists! Greengo either misunderstands the LDS or wants to misrepresent them. They don't believe Jesus was a failed messiah!

However, they could be another great analogy because for Jews, the New Testament is no more valid an "add on" to the Jewish Bible as the Book of Mormon would be considered valid to add to the KJV for a Baptist.

Answer 1

Wow...you hit me where I am...I have been raised a Christian and have come to the realization that I can't believe in the divinity of Jesus. My partner is Jewish, so I have been slowly becoming aware of the skewed view of Judaism that Christians teach. It is amazing to me, as I speak w/ family and friends how each of them suggests that since I have been a Christian, that I look into Messianic Judaism. Of what I have read about Messianic Judaism, they do believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I don't see where Jesus met the criteria for Messiah. I don't think that Christians or missionaries would ever understand the issues that people have w/ their belief in the divinity of Jesus. I have found it interesting at how many people don't want to see Easter as similar to other Pagan religions of the time. They don't want to see the virgin born, man/god, virgin sacrifice, then dying, descending into the underworld, and rising again as Pagan. Sorry, you are preaching to the choir here, it is just interesting that you hit where I am on the nail head. Shalom.

Answer 2

lol Nice one, mama_pjama - must admit I am becoming increasingly exasperated with having to explain to 'messianics' that they are misrepresenting Judaism AND following a theology that blatantly contradicts Judaism!

Am intrigued to see the answers you will get.... shalom :)

EDIT - I agree with RW, I don't think what Jesus taught contradicted Judaism - if anything, surely he started Reform Judaism?! But I think what Christians keep getting confused about is, as they say, 'you can be ethnically Jewish and religiously Christian'. It's THIS belief that allows them to think they are not offending us, and that someone can be both Jewish and Christian.

I keep explaining to them that there are Jews of all ethnic origins and that you can't be both Jewish and Christian but the message is just not sinking in...

GREENGO - you are not entirely right. Don't forget the Romans were the ones who really adopted Christianity; Emperor Constantine believed it would unify people, thus he got rid of all the art and sculpture representing the other deities and instead decreed that Christianity was the way to go! Christianity thus became something far, far removed from Judaism and today there is little or no connection between the two.

GREENGO AGAIN - Jews are not a 'race'. If we were, how could anyone convert to Judaism? And they do, just look at Ruth in the bible! I find it really amusing, yet frustrating, when non Jews tell us what we are! Especially when they often get it so wrong!!!

Answer 3

thats an interesting idea.

I've used an analogy of a hypothetical group of "Christians for Mohammad" who did not believe that Jesus was the messiah or son of God, but it never seems to sink in.

I think that Christians generally have a hard time of understanding how personally offensive these people are to Jews, I am thinking probably because Christianity generally does not have the pseudo-ethnic/extended family/nation-state entity aspect that Judaism does.

I wonder if it woud be possible to study the christian texts and inteperet what hes ACTUALLY said to have said, ect in such a way that it would not be lowering ourselves to their level, or doing anything else unsavory or that God would not approve of.
hell I'd even go as far as to not want to offend Jesus. as much trouble as he caused I don't personally have anything against him, and I do not think he belived in things that most of christianity does,... I suspect that what he originally taught was not even entirely contrary to Judaism... but that its what the church has added since then, that has made it so contrary to Judaism.

Answer 4

Most Christians who know their Bible do not promote the Messianic Judiasm movement at all. The Bible teaches that the there is only one God ordained body of believers on earth today and that is the church (The body of true believers). Jewish people who convert need to come out of Judaism and become Christians, no fence sitting! They should either get out of Judaism or get out of Christianity. We don't believe in Budists Christians or Muslim Christians or Messianic Christians.

Answer 5

Gosh, mama, I've been tempted to ask this for weeks.

I'd call it christians against jesus of Nazereth's essene sect
(cajones)

Bet I get some thumbs down for this one :p

The first stage of conversion would be special high intensity training outside the camp (Dt 23:13-15)

We would of course give a thumbs down to anyone without cajones.

Answer 6

Such a sect already exists, so you are too late, LOL.

Maybe Mormons will stop calling themselves "Christian" by the same logic.

However, you are not entirely correct. Originally, Christianity was a sect of Judaism. Due to persecution from religious leaders in Jerusalem, they began to disassociate themselves from Judaism and identify as a different faith. The background, of course, is the same. However, Christians do believe in the resurrection, which is the basis of the faith. All of the apostles were so convinced of its truthfulness that they went to their (unpleasant) deaths rather than deny it. Mass delusion of the (several hundred) eyewitnesses? That is the only explanation....

In any case, the synchretism of pagan holidays with religious festivals is a venerable tradition. We do it because it is fun, not becuase it has religious symbolism.