Mary---A Virgin?

Question

First of all, let me explain why I am asking this question. I am a strong Christian who happens to be Presbyterian. I love to discuss and debate the Bible. I do not think that I am better or that my beliefs are better than other Christians. I feel the more I know and understand my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ traditions, I can then become a better friend and servant to them. Now to my question. I have some close Catholic brothers and sisters (whom I love deeply) that I have posed this question to and they could not give me a direct answer.
The question is: Why do Catholics still say that Mary was a virgin her whole life? Where does it state this in the Bible?

Sources from the Bible to look at:
Luke 2:41-52 shows that Mary & Joseph were still married when Jesus was 12 years old. I don't think that two married people would go that long without having sex.

All four books of the Gospel show that Jesus had siblings. Since divorce was highly frowned upon in those days, one can assume that these siblings were also offspring of Mary and Joesph
Matthew 12:46
Mark 3:31
Mark 6:3
Luke 8:19
John 7:2,3,5,10
Again, this question is not meant to upset any one, but rather to open up some hopefully good discussion and debate.
Thank you for answering this question

love and magic--I do not believe in Islam and I do not see the Quran as anything holy. I will pray for you that someday you may see the light and accept Jesus as your personal Savior. Only then can you be forgiven of your sins

To non-believers who answer this question: You will never convince me that Jesus is not Christ & our Lord and Savior. I gave my life to Jesus a long time ago. I now try to help others who, according to the Bible, which is the Word of God, those who are lost and stumbling in the darkness.

Answer 1

First of all, good for you that you gave your life to Jesus. You sound like a very wise man.

I am with you, I hope Mary didn't remain a virgin throughout her marriage, I would feel sorry for her husband. And anyways God would not want her denying her man, that just leaves room for the devil.

The reason Catholics get offended is because they have put Mary up too far on a pedestal, so they don't want to hear of her being anything but pure.

She was a good woman, that God chose to use, but the spotlight should remain on Jesus, not her. God also spoke through a mule, but that does not make the mule holy. This is where the Catholics are confused.

Answer 2

It goes back to the Book of Isaiah, were it says "Behold a virgin shall bear a child and his name will be called Emmanuel..." (7:14), or does it? The Hebrew for virgin (al-maw) also means "young girl", and the the context of Isaiah, probably did mean "young girl", as another term could have been used to stress virginity. Moreover, the entire passage does not .necessarily prophesize the virgin birth of Jesus (after all, he was called Jesus and not Emmanuel).

Be that as it may, The Virgin Birth is a key element in the Catholic Faith, to advance the concept that the birth was "without sin" that might be inferred if Jesus was not the son of Joseph (no Maury Povich in those days). Moreover, it brings into the story the concept of the Holy Spirit (or Ghost), who is God's agent in bringing about the impregnation of Mary. I believe that the statement about "lifetime virgnity" is unfounded; however, in the Jewish faith, it was important that a bride-to-be be virgin. The inference, I think is, that Mary only had sex with Joseph other than her unexpected encounter with the Holy Spirit.

Answer 3

Well First, without going too crazy.....Where in your Luke 2:41-52 reference does it say "they weren't having sex, or never had sex after Jesus was born"? All I see is Mary & Joseph we're still married when Jesus was 12yo.
Second, Does it 'actually' say the word 'siblings' or just His Brothers & Sisters? Jesus, from what I understand, referred to "all' Mankind as his Brothers & Sisters.
Third, I was brought up Catholic, went to a Catholic school up to 8th. Grade and no where, at any time do I remember the Nuns teaching Mary was a Virgin her whole life. Of course, they didn't say otherwise either...
I think many of 'those' things are handed down from Generation to Generation, as the writings in the Bible were.
Some people do not believe in the Bible because in a Religious Theology Course it is also taught (to Adults, not Children) that the Bible was written by so many men/Prophets & Priests, of the time, over hundreds of years. It's hard to know who were true and some may have been Religious Heritics, Leviticus being one thought of as a 'Heritic'. His teachings 'DAMNED' almost EVERYONE!
So, in conclusion, I guess that's where your Faith & Beliefs come in?
P.S. Many of those written teachings were written in many different languages.....ya think 'some things were lost in, or added to, in the Translations'? Ya never kno!

Answer 4

First of all I want you to understand that the concept of Mary's perpetual virginity is not limited to Catholics. Mary Luther believed in it. It is taught by the Orthodox Church, the Coptics, the Ethiopian Church, the Armenian Orthodox, and many, many others. In fact, I believe that only American Protestants don't believe in it.

This belief is most clearly taught in some other (extra biblical) ancient texts that were commonly read in the early Christian churches. It was called the Protogospel of James. This tells Christians about the birth of Mary. She was born of elderly parents and raised in the Temple. The Temple priests did not want a grown women in the Temple so as soon as she became of marriageable age (about 12-13) the priests gathered the eligible men together to determine her spouse. Joseph was already an old man, a widower, with children of his own. The priests chose him for Mary. He at first objected, saying that the people would think it odd for him to take such a young bride. But the priests insisted.

The "brothers" of Jesus mentioned in the Bible are half-brothers... children of Joseph's first marriage. Joseph is already dead before Jesus reaches adulthood. Jesus' "brothers" are always suspecious of him and only James gives him a share of Joseph's inheritance. When Jesus is dying on the cross he does not tell Mary to go with her other relatives (as would be the custom)... No, she had no other children to go home with. Jesus tells John, his disciple to take his mother.

It all makes sense of scripture. Its sad that Protestants are not familiar with these stories. Its is interesting that Protestants do accept the belief that Satan was once an archangel Lucifer, who does battle in heaven. The concept of Satan as a fallen angel is also not from the Bible but other ancient texts.

Answer 5

I am going off on a bit of a tangent her. Catholics do not hold to sola scriptura. We believe that apostolic teaching is equal to scripture. We feel the Bible does not support sola scriptura. For example:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Luke 1
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

The protoevangelium (pre-Gospel) of St James http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm says that Mary took a vow of celibacy (she is a virgin of the lord) and that St. Joseph was a widower with children, pay particular attention to chapters 8 and 9.

Jesus's brethren in the Bible were Joseph's children from a previous marriage.

Certainly Mary and Joseph did not have five hundred children?

1 Corinthians 15:6
6After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

The brethren of the Lord in the Bible are not blood siblings.

If forgot to add - the fact that Jesus askes His apostle John to look after His mother is further proof He (Jesus) did not have brothers (if nothing else).

Answer 6

The Bible does not support the Catholic Churches claim that Mary remained a virgin. This is a false teaching made up by man.

You show wisdom since you used scripture to better understand.

Answer 7

I agree with you.

As to the poster who wrote:
"34 But Mary said to the angel: “How is this to be, since I know not man"

If she planned on ever having sex with Joseph, she would not have been surprised to hear she would have a child. However her surprise at the news makes one think she never intended on having children."

She was surprised because she was a virgin. She didn't understand how she could be pregnant since she never had sex; not because she didn't intend to.

Answer 8

Quite frankly, I believe this myth is based on this:

Knowing the times and what little worth women and girls had then, I believe Mary was either raped or had consensual sex - the result was pregnancy. The punishment for women under these circumstances was (and still is in many places) very harsh. In some cultures, even today, a man who has raped a woman must marry her...it is required. Why not the same situation with Joseph...who was much older than the girl Mary. Threatened by the women to reveal his actions, he agreed to go along with the story.

In order to avoid stoning or other finely tuned torture methods, I believe the whole "holy angel of god" thing and the "god as the daddy" was made up by her mother and the women of her village. The visit "by and angel" to her mother, herself and others - were all told by women.

She doesn't get stoned and Joseph and the men can't complain......

Answer 9

I also believe as you do, that Mary did not remain a virgin. Nor are we to look to her, pray to or through her, or to even hold her in any esteem compared to how Catholics do. Now that's not discrediting her, as I believe she WAS a very special and chosen young woman to hold such an important place in God's mind that he used her to give birth to Jesus. But they (Catholics) went WAY overboard in their worship/belief of what responsibilities she had after the birth. This link gives an overview of what their beliefs are regarding Mary. I don't wish to "bash" Catholics as individuals, as I too have very dear and near friends and some family who are Catholic, but I only am trying to show how it is that they interpret Mary in their religious practices.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc126.htm

Answer 10

Mary and Joseph had children together after the birth of Jesus. So, no she did not remain a virgin, unless all of her children were born out of an immaculate conception which would make them all the same as Jesus.