The truth about Baptism... people act like they know all about it but who can say for certain?

Question

I noticed a recent question on "what is Baptism for?" And there must have been 30 answers to that question... and those answers were ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Isn't the honest truth that we DO NOT KNOW what John's "baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" was about?

And isn't it the honest truth that we DO NOT KNOW what the disciples were doing when they baptized people in the early part of the gospel?

Come on now.... Let's get real... THERE IS NO RECORD OF WHAT THEY ACTAULLY DID OR SAID. "I baptize you in the name of the Father" is NOT real content. That is just the INTRODUCTION.

So come on now... isn't there a single out there who is willing to admit that we honestly don't know what was going on 2000 years ago in this private ceremony?

My source for the details of this mystery: http://gospelenigma.com

Answer 1

well I'm the one who asked that Question so yeah I'll definitely admit that i don't know what it was all about,

can i ask you a question?
do you think people should get baptised just because the bible says to even if you don't know why it says to?

Answer 2

Man how I enjoy seeing the miles of text from secular Catholics....and fundamental Protestants...cut and paste...cut and paste...not one thought based on anything more than a sentence or paragraph when it takes an entire chapter to tell the story...

Read the book of Matthew if you want to know why baptism is followed by Christians...Christians believe before the baptism of Jesus it was done as a symbolic life, death, and resurrection of the body in obedience to God....Christians do it as a symbolic gesture to do as Jesus did and follow God's command as Jesus told John the baptist at the time he submitted to the baptism...it does not include the sprinkling of water on a baby's head...

Answer 3

Christians always interpreted the Bible literally when it declares, "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21; cf. Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:11–12), and they have always interpreted that as WATER BAPTISM. Thus the early Church Fathers wrote in the Nicene Creed (A.D. 381), "We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins."

And the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation [John 3:5]. . . . Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament [Mark 16:16]" (CCC 1257).

The Christian belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation is so unshakable that even the Protestant Martin Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: "Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted" (Large Catechism 4:6).

Still, even though the necessity of water baptism is a normative, there are exceptions to water baptism. It is possible to be saved through "baptism of blood," martyrdom for Christ, or through "baptism of desire", that is, an explicit or even implicit desire for baptism. This applies to, say, the Good Thief on the cross. Thus the Catechism of the Catholic Church also states: "Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized" (CCC 1281; the salvation of unbaptized infants is also possible under this system; cf. CCC 1260–1, 1283).

I suggest you read the first seven links on this page:
http://www.catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp

Answer 4

Here is a suggestion that I have actually been writing about -

In the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Qumran Community which I believe to be an Essene community (due to the accounts written by ancient historians such as Josephus, Philo and Pliny the Elder), where a baptismal sect.

According to their writings, they saw themselves as the fulfillment of Isa. 40:3

“And when these become members of the Community in Israel according to all these rules, they shall separate from the habitation of unjust men and shall go into the wilderness to prepare there the way of Him; as it is written, 'Prepare in the wilderness the way of…, make straight in the desert a path for our God.' (Isa. 40:3) This (path) is the study of the Law which He commanded by the hand of Moses, that they may do according to all that has been revealed from age to age, and as the Prophets have revealed by His Holy Spirit.” (Dead Sea Scroll Fragment -1QS 8: 12 – 18).

If you understand that Qumran saw itself as a fulfillment of this scripture, and realize that the Qumran community lived in the desert, one could see a link between it and the Role of John the Baptist.

Now according to the Dead sea Scrolls, if someone were to interpret the scripture incorrectly and not "repent" of it, he was to be cast out of the community. Furthermore, because of the oaths one would take before God at initiation, the one cast out, would not be able to eat with other people, because the oaths taken only allow one to eat food prepared by the group and not by anyone else. Plus, all members of the community were to shun him until he repented. Thus, the only course of action one would have, would be to eat things found in the desert, such as wild berries, vegetation or honey.

According to the Scrolls, one who is cast out for teaching false ideas, must repent and cleanse himself (through ceremonial baptism), and change his thinking in order to re- enter the community and not starve to death. He could not enter the cities for food, because of his oaths as well.

In this sense, one could possibly see John the Baptist as a fellow who was probably a part of the Qumran community, but cast out of it. He fulfills all aspects of this idea. Furthermore, if he had a different view point about the Messiah figure, than the community that he was not willing to repent of, he would more than likely not be permitted to re-enter.

Thus, if he had a personal conviction, he would have kept with his oaths with God which he took in Qumran, yet, he would have probably still saw himself in the same light as them, in fulfilling Isa. 40:3. For this reason, he would be in the desert, baptizing for the repentence of sins, which is the way one would work to "make straight" the path for the Coming Messiah.

Can you imagine what he must of went through in his alienation from his community, while having an inward conviction of keeping what which he felt the Lord had revealed to him. He wouldfeel much rejection in fear of being wrong.

This may show why, that after he baptized Jesus, and was placed in prison, why he would still question if Jesus was the Messiah. He was only one of many who would have this idea of Jesus being the Messiah.

Thus, in this context, the baptism of repentence for the forgiveness of sins, is to "make straight" the path for the "Messiah." It has nothing to do about baptism into trinitarian theology.

In todays sense, if Messiah is looked at as the "anointed one," which is the Hebrew meaning, then one would need to still be "baptized" into repentence for the forgiveness of sins, in order that the anointed one would have a straight path into you, or better yet, to come out of you into the world.

Answer 5

Christian baptism is a spinoff of the Jewish tradition of the Mikveh. It was and still is used for cleansing the body and soul.

Answer 6

The gesture itself is a way of announcing that you have chosen to follow God in his everything, showing that you have received Jesus the Christ into your life. It has no effect on your soul it is a symbolic gesture to those near you.

Answer 7

You should allow yourself to be influenced by another source than gospelenigma.

Answer 8

Baptism is by immersion.

The New Testament was originally written in the Greek language. The Greek word we get the word "baptism" from, means to immerse.

Immersion is to dip down into the water. It is an overwhelming. The one being baptized is lowered into (until he is completely under) the water and then lifted up out of the water. It is not just sprinkling or pouring a little water on top of someone.

This can also be seen in Scripture.

John 3:23 says, "Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized." Only immersion requires "much water".

Baptism is described as going down into the water and coming up out of the water. (Matthew 3:16-17, Acts 8:38-39) Only immersion has the one being baptized going into the water.

Also, baptism is described as a burial. (Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12) Only immersion buries the one being baptized.

It's funny that the only place that people have trouble understanding baptism is in religion. If someone were to say they were "baptized in debt", would you think they had just a sprinkling of debt (a few bills)? No, someone described in this way is figuratively "covered up" with debt.

I saw a sports article that said the freshmen on a football team had an "early baptism". Of course it mean they were plunged into full sudden participation in the program. They did not just see a sprinkling of activity, but they were fully involved.

If we can understand this everywhere else, why not in religion?

Baptism is the point when a repentant believer becomes a Christian (saved). Baptism is how God has appointed for us to receive the gift of salvation.

1 Peter 3:21 says, “…baptism now saves you -- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience – through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

Baptism is a command of Christ. He said, “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” (Mark 16:16)

Many will tell you that someone believes, is saved, and then he shall be baptized. This is not the same thing Jesus said. It is not in the same order.

What would Jesus have said if he had meant, “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved”? I believe he said what he meant and meant what he said. I believe Jesus! “He that believes not shall be condemned.” (Mark 16:16)

Many agree that baptism is commanded by Christ, but they say it is not necessary for salvation. However, Hebrews 5:9 says, “He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”

According to this verse, in order to be saved it is necessary to obey Christ, therefore it is necessary to be baptized since Christ commanded it!

Acts 2:38 says that baptism is “for the remission of sins”, “unto the remission of sins” or “so that your sins will be forgiven”. (Depending on which translation you read.) I Peter 3:21 says "baptism now saves"!

What would Peter have said if he had meant, “baptism now saves”?

In the conversion of Saul (Paul), Acts 22:16 says he was commanded to be baptized and wash away his sins. Can we be saved if our sins remain? The blood of Christ washes away sins (Revelation 1:5) .

Romans 6:3-4 says we are “baptized into Christ”. Can we be saved outside of Christ? (See Gal. 3:27 also.) These verses in Romans also say we are “baptized into his death”. At Christ’s death is where his saving blood was shed and offered for our sins. We must contact His death to contact that blood! Can we be saved if we have not contacted His death?

How can our sins be washed away by the blood (Revelation 1:5) if we have not contacted that blood? To contact the blood, we must contact His death where the blood was shed!

Romans 6:3-13 also say that at baptism we “rise to walk in newness of life.” At a birth there is a new life. Can we be saved if we have not been “born again” to this new life in Christ?

In the New Testament after Jesus gave the command about baptism, every example of a conversion specifically mentions baptism. None of these converts ate, drank, slept, or continued their journey until they were baptized. It was always immediate.

Some point to examples, such as the thief on the cross, before Jesus issued his command of baptism. He could not have obeyed a command that had not yet been issued. Also the death, burial, and resurrection that baptism now represents had not occurred at that time. How could he be baptized into Christ's death, when Christ had not yet died? How could he have been “buried with Christ” (Col. 2:12) when Christ had not yet been buried? How could he rise from baptism “in the likeness of His resurrection” when Christ had not yet risen?

Those before Christ's death lived under the Old Testament. The New Testament came into effect after Christ died and rose again. (Hebrews 9:15-17) And remember, it was after His death that Jesus commanded baptism (Mark 16:16, Matt. 28:18-20) All those who now live after that point in time are subject to the New Testament and to that command.

Also, the thief on the cross was at the scene of Christ's crucifixion. He had direct contact with Christ at His death. We are not in that position. Again, it is through baptism that we contact His death!

Saul who I mentioned earlier, is a good example of the necessity of baptism. He spoke to Jesus. He called Jesus “Lord” and he asked what he needed to do to be saved. Jesus told him to go into the city and it would be told to him what he “must do”. In the city he fasted for three days and he was praying. (Acts 9:9-11) Many would say he was saved at that point, but he still had not been told what he “must do”.

Then he was told to be baptized and wash away his sins “calling on the name of the Lord”. Obviously, “calling on the name of the Lord” involved more that saying ‘Lord’, more than praying, amore than belief and more than repentance. Saul had done all of these things, but he still needed to call on the name of the Lord!

The phrase “calling on the name of the Lord” means to rely on His authority. Saul had not done this until he did what the Lord authorized (instructed), namely “be baptized”. (Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:18-20, read Luke 24:47 along with Acts 2:5 & 38).

Please note, even though he had not eaten or drank for three days, he was baptized before he took food. (Acts 9:18-19) This shows the urgency of baptism. In fact, none of the new converts in the book of Acts ate, drank, slept or continued a journey until they had been baptized!

Baptism is specifically mentioned in all of the examples of the conversion of an alien sinner in the book of Acts. Love, grace, mercy, confession, repentance, and the blood of Christ are all necessary for salvation, but, even though they can be inferred, they are not specifically mentioned every time. Baptism is!

After one believes, repents and confesses Christ; baptism is the point at which we come “into Christ”. The act of being immersed in water and rising up out of the water symbolically recreates Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. It is this way God has appointed for us to contact Christ's death and be forgiven of our sins. Baptism is “for the remission of sins"!

WHAT EXACTLY IS THERE WE CANNOT KNOW ABOUT BAPTISM?

Please don't confuse a failure to accept what the Bible says about baptism, or any other subject, we an inability to know or understand!

God knows us better than we even know ourselves. Such a God is able and willing to express His will in a way that we can know and understand it! [Since we will be judged based on His word (John 12:48), God would be unjust if he did not communicate it to us.]

If we do not understand, it is because we have failed to take the time to study the metter with an honest open mind. (2 Timothy 2:15, Acts 17:11)