Heathens: is Hel a bad place?

Question

i don't know much about really anything, but i do know that Hel is where the people who die of old age go, and apparently is like a disgrace.

so here's my question

is this a place of torment, ie is comparable to the Christian Hell?

second, if you're old and die of old age, but you die while kicking someone's butt, do you go to Hel?

Answer 1

It's not a place of disgrace really. There are "parts" of Niflheim. Hel is in Niflheim. You see this in the Prose when Hermódr rides down to Hel to look for Baldr.
There is Nastrand (Corpse-Strand) where the worst of the worst go
38. A hall I saw, | far from the sun,
On Nastrond it stands, | and the doors face north,
Venom drops | through the smoke-vent down,
For around the walls | do serpents wind.

39. I saw there wading | through rivers wild
Treacherous men | and murderers too,
And workers of ill | with the wives of men;
There Nithhogg sucked | the blood of the slain,
And the wolf tore men; | would you know yet more?
Voluspo (Bellows tr)

Now when you get into the prose it does state a lot about how Hel is a place of evil men, but you have to remember that Snori was a Christian. While he was attempting to preserve his heritage's stories, it is still meshed with a lot of Christian beliefs. For example he also states in the beginning of the Prose that the people of the North were offspring of Cain. (Several old manuscripts from several religions that were merged with Christianity do the same)

But evil men go to Hel and thence down to the Misty Hel; and that is down in the ninth world."
Gylfanning (Brodeur tr)

Hel is also the name of the one who rules Hel. She is Loki's daughter.
XXXIV. Yet more children had Loki. Angrboda was the name of a certain giantess in Jötunheim, with whom Loki gat three children: one was Fenris-Wolf, the second Jörmungandr--that is the Midgard Serpent,--the third is Hel..... Hel he cast into Niflheim, and gave to her power over nine worlds, to apportion all abodes among those that were sent to her: that is, men dead of sickness or of old age. She has great possessions there; her walls are exceeding high and her gates great. Her hall is called Sleet-Cold; her dish, Hunger; Famine is her knife; Idler, her thrall; Sloven, her maidservant; Pit of Stumbling, her threshold, by which one enters; Disease, her bed; Gleaming Bale, her bed-hangings. She is half blue-black and half flesh-color (by which she is easily recognized), and very lowering and fierce.
Gylfaginning

Now while you see that the sick and what not go to Hel, you have to also realize that Baldr went to Hel along with his wife. He was killed by his brother at the manipulation of Loki. This wasn't a dishonorable death.

Ok this is the extent of my knowledge. I'm sure other Heathens here can explain more and better.
:)

And to add, something I just remembered reading in HR Ellis Davidson, there is evidence of "marking for Odin" even after someone had died and there were those would commit suicide by shoving a spear through them in order to go to Odin instead of a "straw death". So no, you don't have to die in battle for Odin to take your either.

Answer 2

Despite the fact that Her name was applied to the Christian realm of punishment, the Goddess Hel is not a malevolent Goddess nor is Helheim a "bad" place. There is a section in Hel, called Nastrond, where murderers, oath breakers, and others who do ill deeds go and are punished but the rest of the realm is a peaceful place of rest for the dead who don't qualify for entry into Valhalla or Folkvang via dying in battle, nor drown and end up in Aegirheim under the ocean (victims of drowning end up under the care of the Goddess Ran and Her Husband Aegir).

You have to remember that the passages that describe Hel as a horrid disgraceful place come from the Eddas, which were written by a Christian monk named Snorri Sturulson. While the Eddas are a valuable work in deciphering the nature of our Gods, it is also very strongly Christian influenced and there is a marked Christian bias inherent in them. They need to be read with some prejudice.

As for the second question...it depends. What context are you referring to "kicking someone's butt"? If they die in battle they technically get snatched up by the Valkyries and are sent to Valhalla or Folkvang (Odin's and Freyja's halls...the two of Them split the honorable dead between Them, though Freyja gets first choice. She often chooses the best so getting into Folkvang is actually considered the greater honor).

But taking that into account most Heathens are pretty much aware that, barring military service, most of us are going to Hel :)

Answer 3

There is debate with in the Heathen and literary community of her existence at all. I have read compelling arguments and evidence the Hel was invented from the whole cloth as a way to make the Edda's more palatable for the Christian readers of the lore. But even working under the belief that she ever existed at all (which I don't think she did personally because I have seen no evidence in grave goods which one would think she would be present in in some form) to offer her anything would be to start a gifting cycle. Why would you wish to have one with her? A gift for a gift. This will start a relationship with her. From what we gather, few of our ancestors spoke directly to the gods. The gods hae little to no vested interest in us. We are toys, mere mortals on thier chess board. The gods rarely work in our interest, usually only in thier own. Your ancestors is where your ultimate loyalty lies because THEY protect your luck. They are who have a vested interest in you. That doesnt mean to ignore the gods by any stretch but the gods come and go as they will and sometimes don't come at all. Your ancestors, your bloodline...that's where your family luck lies.

Answer 4

my heathen friends talk about partying in hel, but i think that's more to shock any christians that might be eavesdropping. they don't see it as a place of torment, it's an afterlife for regular folk. they don't dread it, but they'd rather be with freya. apparently, she has the better mead.

Answer 5

as far as I know .. it isnt a place of torment
it is just another place in the next life , for the common folk who didnt die in battle
if you die in battle you go to Valhalla
I think the differences lie in the rewards rather than any punishment

edit
please dont quote me as I am not Asatru or Heathen ... just going from what I remember my hubby talking about

Answer 6

It's not that bad. A little toasty... >:)

On a side note, I have to wonder about incredibly selfless, giving, faithful, Christ-like people who also push the appealing crap like that found on yourgoingtohell.com. What a charmer! I'm a fount of emotion! Clearly, I have been wrong all this time.

Excuse me.

My head's about to spin around and my acid reflux is backing up again...

Answer 7

Yeah, what HD said.
~lazy heathen~

Answer 8

Jinky's that's impressive!

Answer 9

It is about like going to Heck

Answer 10

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Sounds bad to me, especially when you add eternal fire.