Christians? Do you believe in the trinity?

Question

A friend of mine,she knows the lord,but we had a debate as to weather the trinity exists. In the bible God says "In my son,I am proud" 1 or 3?

I believe in the trinity,she believes they are all one? She is apolostolic

Answer 1

Here's a look into the Trinity on Jesus Christ's behalf...

Many have been struggling with the Trinity, what it means and how it could be. To completely understand it, we never will until we are in His presence, because our minds are too small. I want to shed a little bit of scripture that should help though. To begin with, I want you to think of time. Time is endless, it goes on forever just as God does, but, the difference is God is outside of time. He created time. He created all. Looking at time though, we have three distinct, separate parts: past, present, and future. Together each makes up time. They are not different beings/entities; they are all components of time, just different parts of it. You can’t have one without the other, and you can’t take away one without destroying time.

Before I get into this next part, a few definitions....

Tri-theism: three distinct gods

Polytheistic: belief in or worship of more than one god.

Pantheon: the gods of a people

So many people choose to argue that the Trinity is a Pagan concept. You have to remember that tri-theisms are a subset of polytheistic pantheons. Tri-theisms such as those in the Hindu Greek pantheons were not actual triads. You won't find one tri-theism where the members of that pantheon subset consisted of two or more individual entities that were of equal nature. Nor will you find a tri-theism consisting two or more individuals who manifested one entity such as the Trinity teaches. Members of pagan pantheons were often not omnipresent, omnipotent, had a beginning, were capricious , etc. Nothing even remotely close to the Hebrew-Christian teachings of the Trinity. The early church fathers were strongly opposed against Greek pagan teachings and could have not possibly made a mixture of Christian and pagan teachings. Also, you have to remember that to invent the Trinity is beyond the capacity of man or even Satan. Man cannot possibly conceive of the inconceivable. Man cannot conceive of anything non-intelligible or beyond the physical realm that exists outside of the five senses (sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell). Therefore, the Trinity has to exist outside of man's capacity to invent concepts.

The fact pagan concepts predate a Biblical concept doesn't demonstrate that concept to be unscriptural or borrowed. I would submit that Pagan concepts are nothing more than a distortion of the truth as opposed to being the other way around. After all no lie exists which cannot be said to be finite. If the Anti-Trinitarian or Unitarian logic were consistent, then they should dismiss their own beliefs as being pagan in origin. Please allow me to explain. Before Moses was born, there was a Pharaoh who ruled in Egypt named Akhenaton. King Akhenaton destroyed every statue and image of every Egyptian deity except for the Sun God Horus. This means that Akhenaton promoted monotheistic Unitarian worship before Moses was born. Therefore, since Moses wrote the Pentateuch or the first five books of scripture (Genesis through Deuteronomy) this means that this took place well before the Bible was written. If Unitarian logic were consistent, they should reject their own beliefs since a pagan promoted monotheistic anti-Trinitarian worship prior to the writing of scripture. Bible-bashing professing Atheists and Agnostics often make much of the fact there were flood and creation stories which were written prior to the writing of scripture. And because of that fact, they use the same logic that well-intended Unitarians use. The faulty logic that a pagan concept exists prior to a Christian concept demonstrates the Christian concept was borrowed from paganism. Sadly, such logic ultimately leads to unbelief of scripture as a whole.


This is far different than pagan triad gods, or what people imagine of the Trinity even if they don’t know or understand pagan gods. In the pagan triad, you could take away one, and have no effect on the other two, they would still be gods, in fact, there would be a god that had been a god longer than the others and so forth. With the Trinity, and not to make it too simple and watered down, if you took away one, it would be like taking the legs off a person, the arms, the eyes, etc. They are all in one, and without one part of it, the Godhead would not function the same. We are similar in our body make-up. We have the outward flesh and moving parts. We have the inner organs that make those things work controlled by the brain. Then we have our thoughts which we use to speak words, eat to sustain life and know where to find that food, and so forth. You cannot survive or exist without any of those three parts, and one cannot live outside of the other. Let’s look at some scripture shall we?



1John 4:12

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

In this verse we see that no man has seen God at any time. Pretty plain and simple right? In fact, we are told in other places how if you see God, you would surely die. Alright, now look…



Genesis 17:1

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect."

Genesis 18:1

"And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;"

These are just two verses in which God clearly appears to men, and they see Him. Not an angel of the Lord, as some would say. If it were an angel of the Lord, it would say “In the name of the Lord” or “Thus saith the Lord” the in conversation we see later in the chapters. That does not happen. There are of course more verses that show this type of thing. WHAT? Is there a contradiction? Seems like it right? This is a common scenario you would encounter with faiths like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Islam, and more that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Seems a bit overwhelming at the onset, and many people are flustered by this. Don’t give up, let’s keep looking.



John 1:1

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The Word here is Jesus Christ. Often people will point at the Bible and say that is the Word….but that’s actually the Word of God, totally different. Jesus Christ is the Word, much in the same way as your thoughts are a part of you that allow you to speak and be heard. It says plainly, that in the beginning He was there. That in itself tells us He had no beginning, no start, He is eternal. He was not created, as some people would like to have you believe, He was there from the beginning. It goes further to tell us that He was God. Now, Jehovah's witnesses change this verse in their corrupt translation of the Bible, the NWT (New World Translation). The last part of the verse reads "and the Word was [a] god.". No I am not kidding. It is in brackets like that as well. This translation completely goes against any Greek interpretation, and just is not in there. It also presents then with a problem. They will quickly tell you there are two types of gods. God the Father, and then everything else is a false god. They deny that Jesus is part of God, so, the Jesus they follow clearly is a false god. They are in a quandary! Add on top of that, John, being a devout Jew would never call Jesus "a god" as that would be blasphemous to the One True God. John knew who God was, and knew Jesus was part of God as well. So from the onset, before anything, Jesus was God. Now we’re getting somewhere.



John 1:14

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Here we see where Jesus was made into flesh. This of course was through the Holy Spirit. That being the case, the Holy Spirit cannot be an “active force” or creation, or anything else people try to make Him into. Something created, or a force could do nothing to plant the seed for the fleshly form of Jesus Christ. It is impossible. We have already seen that Jesus Christ is God as well, and something below Him could not possibly incarnate Him into flesh. The Holy Spirit, thus, is also God. Hmm, getting warmer aren’t we? This was when Jesus was planted into Mary to become flesh and bones just like us, to walk among us, and ultimately to pay the price for our sins. It also addresses the Father, and Jesus His begotten Son. We can see now the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All clearly defined as God. Different functions, but all of the same, because:



Isaiah 42:8

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

This act is sharing in God’s glory, which would not be permissible unless they were actually God. So then, we see there are three distinct, different parts of God that make up God. So how did these people see God? Because, in the appearances of the Old Testament, it was Jesus Christ. This is referred to as a theophany, an appearance of God. This was before He was incarnated into flesh for His ministry on Earth. He could appear, and as God, He would be able to meet face to face with man. Man would not be consumed as he would if it were God in all His Glory. That would, of course, be too much for us to handle, and then we would die. So, God was able to appear in the form of Jesus Christ who took on an appearance of man, but was not yet flesh and blood.



Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah prophesied here about Jesus becoming flesh and blood. Notice, He says He would be called the Mighty God and everlasting Father. This man was a devout Jew. He knew exactly who God was and worshipped only one God. In fact, God Himself was inspiring him to write and make prophecy. Clearly, Isaiah would never call someone these names if He were not one in the same as the God of the Old Testament, YHWH, or Yahweh. Furthermore, God would not have allowed him to write it! Further proof, Jesus is God and there is a Trinity that makes up this Godhead.

Now that may leave one asking, “Why did Jesus say the Father is greater than him?” or “Why did Jesus pray to the Father?” Let’s take a look at another verse…



Philippians 2:5-8

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. "

Here we see where Jesus emptied Himself for a little while. This does not mean that He got rid of any of His attributes as God. You would deny His deity to say so. He was still God in every way, but He came to be a servant versus stern ruler and use His power over men. As a man He had to show us the way, He revealed the Father to us and how to talk to Him and come before Him. The Father was in Heaven, Jesus was God, but came to earth for His ministry. That’s how He emptied Himself. He left all glory in Heaven and came here. When He says the Father is greater, it is because the Father is in Heaven in glory, and he (Jesus) was here. He was fully man, and fully God, He just did not exercise all His Godly powers as He came to serve and to save.



Hebrews 1:6

"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."

From cover to cover in the Bible, you will find a multitude of verses that enforce that God shares His glory and worship with no one. Only He can receive it. Plain as day in this verse, God the Father commands His angels to worship Jesus Christ. God is sovereign, holy, and righteous and would never command His angels to worship anything except...God. Straightforward, unless you are a Jehovah's Witness. Their NWT changes the word "worship" to "obeisance". In fact, everywhere in their translation, they translate the Greek word to obeisance when it is in reference to Jesus Christ; however, when it refers to God, false gods, and even Satan, it is translated as worship. Sounds like a hidden agenda doesn't it? It is! See, I have a 1950 AND a 1960 version of the NWT, and it says WORSHIP in this verse. That's right. It was not until 1970 that they changed it to obeisance. This coming from a group calling itself the faithful and discreet slave, yet by definition in the Bible, the faithful and discreet slave will not be on a learning curve and make mistakes like this. Mistakes that mislead. Of course, they are a whole other discussion.

That’s the Trinity in a nutshell, on Jesus Christ's behalf, with Biblical proof. To deny the divinity of Jesus, and deny that He is God as is the Father and the Holy Spirit, is to deny God all together, and you are doomed. I will have proof of Holy Spirit as a part of God rather than just an active force in an upcoming article as well. Stay tuned.

Answer 2

True Christians don't believe in the trinity because Christianity's founder, Jesus Chrisrt, never taught it. According to the trinity, God exists as three co-equal, co-eternal persons. Such a belief directly contradicts Jesus' words that his Father is the ONLY true God. (John 17:3)

Answer 3

I believe in God, and I believe that the Bible is God's Word, his witness of many things, but mostly of himself. That is, contrary to what is popularly said, the Bible tells us who God is, as well as his attributes. And the Bible CLEARLY does NOT support a Trinitarian nature of God.

Does the Bible define what Trinitarianism is? No, the Athanasian Creed defines it. And there is no stamp of approval from God on the Athanasian Creed, but there is God's stamp of approval on the Bible, the Word of God. And the Bible nowhere supports the Trinitarian Doctrine. Only confusion comes from trying to rectify the two completely contrary documents.

Compare the two documents:
Athanasian Creed says, "...None is greater or less than Another..."
But Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). Was Jesus mistaken?

Athanasian Creed says, each is eternal, "the Son Eternal"
But the Bible says Jesus died (Romans 5:6, 8, 8:34, 14:9, 15, 1 Corinthians 8:11, 15:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:10, Revelation 1:18, etc...). Can one be eternal if he dies?

Trinitarian Doctrine: "... these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists." Athanasian Creed says, "Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance."
The Word of God: John 8:17-18 -- It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me." One being cannot be two witnesses.

Who knows more about God, God or men? Who's witness is true, that of God or men? Who are you going to believe, God or men?

Answer 4

Yes I believe in the trinity. Many places in the Bible Jesus is referred to as God. Also the Holy Spirit is referred to as God in the Book of Acts.

Answer 5

If Jesus is God, then who was it that he prayed to?

"One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God." -Luke 6:12 (NIV)



Jesus is the Son of God, NOT God Himself. (John 14:28) Hence, I do not believe in the trinity. Have you ever seen the word "trinity" in the Bible? What does John 3:16 say? Does it say God came to earth? No, it says that God gave his Son.

Answer 6

Who cares, just trust the Holy Spirit and you'll never be lead astray.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the eternal sin.

Those people who distrust the Holy Spirit are the very ones that lead us to distrust the Holy Spirit among us, blasphemy of the worst kind!

When it comes to God, there is no truth without Spirit.

Answer 7

3. "In the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God." there you have at least 2. then later, you find the Holy Spirit, which is also said to be God.... but maybe the Holy Spirit and The Word are the same... so what about Jesus? well, the Bible also says that Jesus is God(he is also called the Word Of God)... so if the Holy Spirit is God, and Jesus is God, and God is God, that makes 3

and yet, because they are God, they are all one

Answer 8

THE BIBLE SAYS SO AND I HAVE EXPERIENCED ALL 3

(GOD THE FATHER)

(GOD THE SON) (JESUS) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Answer 9

Trinity is an addition to the bible. It was never in it originally. That's a fact.

Answer 10

Simple put , the Bible doesn't teach the concept of the trinity.

It 'IS' a pagan doctrine incorporated into false Christianity during the first century great apostasy.

True Christians do not follow an easily disproved lie as this is.

For more Bible based info please feel free to email me.

Answer 11

I believe they are one but 3 ways in which God has shown himself Jesus said baptise in the name of all 3.