Calling all Cesar Millan 'disapprovers'...?

Question

Keen to understand why you don't like Cesar Millan's approach to Dog Behaviour. I'd appreciate your explanations.

Thanks!

Appreciate everyone's responses - keep 'em coming if there's more.

Cheers!

Answer 1

Here are my reasons....

1) Millan knows next to nothing about dogs! He has no education in dog behaviour etc, and a lot of his theories are proven false!

2) He is a fraud. He is presenting methods he claims to be his own, but are mostly just the old methods which have been disproved (and disapproved of!) for many years by professional dog trainers and behaviourists. He just took someone elses bad ideas, gave them shiny new titles and sold them on to people who don't know any better.

3) He doesn't seem to use any positive reinforcement at all. No rewards - treats, toys, even basic praise. PR is the single most effective and humane way to train any animal from a goldfish to a human. All Millan uses is force and physical punishment.

4) Some of his methods are cruel.
He has no problem with:
Choke chains (painful, can cause serious injury including tissue and muscle damage, transient hind leg ataxia, collapsed tracheas etc)
Prong collars (painful and potentially harmful - skin punture etc)
Shock collars (painful, can cause burns and pressure necrosis).
He also uses direct physical abuse - hitting (his "bite" thing), the ridiculous alpha roll etc.

There is absolutely NO NEED to abuse an animal in the name of training. It is cruel, unnecessary, and counterproductive!

5) Some of his methods are dangerous to people trying to use them - which is why he is so frequently bitten himself. If you assault an animal it will go into "fight or flight" mode, making it highly reactive and liable to bite.

6) He uses the behavioural technique "flooding" in a cruel and inappropriate way, forcing animals to face their phobias until they emotionally shut down. This isn't a cure - the animal just becomes so distressed that it is no longer capable of reacting, and shows "learned helplessness".

7) A lot of his "cures" are anything but. Often they are short term fixes, but will have no long term effect. He does not treat the cause of behaviour problems, only the symptoms, so the "trigger" is still there. It is like taking painkillers to fight a disease - it may look good, but it doesn't actually do anything! The chances are the dog will actually become more reactive in future.

8) He talks about the importance of exercise - but not in an appropriate way. Power walking and treadmills provide only a limited type of exercise. He does not emphasise that dogs need to be able to walk, run, play, learn, sniff, socialise, investigate their environment, etc. He doesn't mention species-specific behaviours or how to get your dog to use his mind. Power walks alone are not enough.

9) His methods are totally at odds with those recommended by professionals. He ignores the methods that are safe, humane and effective - proven by countless trainers and behaviourists and with scientific evidence to back them up.

10) He likes to use "dominance theory" for absolutely everything. The original dominance theory has long since been disproved for two reasons. 1) Dogs are not wolves! 2) The study on wolves (which is the basis for this theory) was seriously flawed, so not representative of true wolf behaviour.

11) By using methods that induce pain and fear he causes the dogs stress. This actually INHIBITS learning - making training more confusing for the dog, and harder for the owner! This is scientific fact (related to chemicals in the brain).


12) Through his books, TV series etc he has promoted his appaling, inhumane and ineffective methods to the general public. Thanks to him, thousands of innocent people are abusing their dogs and failing to train them properly. Thanks to him, dog training (and animal welfare in general) has been set back by decades!

13) I also find him arrogant and annoying - but that is just personal opinion!

Answer 2

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Answer 3

I go both ways on Cesar Millan. His methods certainly do work effectively, and he knows dog behavior, but the way his methods work is not for the inexperienced. In truth, he is a very high force trainer. The high-collars he uses on most dogs are a form of force and domination that works to discipline a dog, but does not necessarily teach it anything. Most people do not know how to use these tools correctly, and will over-correct a dog and create more problems. He isn't wrong in what he is doing, but there are certain things I object to about the way he presents his work.
#1-in his world, crates are the universal solution. Not true! Crates prevent a dog from misbehaving, but do not help the dog learn anything at all. They are a tool, not a solution.
#2-much force, little praise. Self-explanatory, he just isn't into telling the dogs when they do things correctly. Nobody likes to be only told when they are wrong.
#3-not showing TV viewers all the training aspects. One memorable episode, a cocker growls and bites at whoever enters the house. He employs the use of a "shake can" to punish the dog for growling. Most trainers would tell you that punishing a dog for growling is a terrible idea. No punishment should be made until the dog actually tries to bite. Why? Growling is the only warning you have that a dog is going to bite. Get rid of the growling and you have no idea if the dog is feeling threatened or apt to bite at any time. Nowhere in the show did he say anything about actually remedying the biting. He probably talked to the owners about it, but that training process isn't magical enough for TV.
#4-most owners are apt to overdo his solutions. He emphasizes dominating dogs, but many people don't know the difference between a dog that is misbehaving out of fear, nervousness, dominance, or in some cases over-submission.
Simple fact is, the TV world just doesn't present the whole story. There can never be enough emphasis placed on the fact that a dog with a serious problem like aggression needs to be seen by a behaviorist, and if you diagnose the source of aggression incorrectly at home, you can have disastrous results. Also, dogs with fear issues would often be completely overwhelmed by his methods, and if you don't know exactly what you are doing things can go very wrong. Many, many people on this forum treat Ceaser Milan as the gospel truth of dog training. The fact is, there are many ways to work with dog behavior, and there is not one way for every dog. Looking at only one method is the worst possible thing for the dogs. Also, his methods are not some amazing revolution. True behavior modification in dogs takes months, and it is only TV magic that makes us believe it takes about a day.

Answer 4

Some of his ideas are good - a lot of problems with dogs are because their owners simply refuse to think of them as dogs, and realize that they can't think our terms, it's our job to try to learn to think in theirs. That's a good point to make.

However, I think some of his methods are not particularly good or advisable, in particular the dominance by force kind of technique. That doesn't work with every dog I know it wouldn't have worked with my dog.

He seems to have sort of a one size fits all approach, and I don't think the same approach is going to have the same results with every dog. Plus, it tends to give people the impression that it only takes one thirty minute show to have a perfect dog. More importantly, if someone thinks that all it takes to be a dog trainer is to watch a few episodes of his show, then that's really not a good thing. The more you learn about something, the more you begin to realize how little you really know. I worry that he gives the impression that this is all you need to know.

Finally, there are a lot of people who have a much better background, have been training dogs, working with dogs, and studying dog behavior and "psychology" long before he ever appeared on the scene, such as Patricia McConnell, Ian Dunbar, Suzzane Clothier, Jan Fennell, Brian Killcommons, Sarah Wilson, Karen Pryor, Stanley Coren, etc., etc., etc. I would much rather learn from their decades of accumulated experience than his few years.

I have mixed feelings about him. As I said, bringing some of these ideas forth in a very visible way, is not bad. But when you get a cult of popularity, then the emphasis tends to shift to admiration of the person, rather than a critical look at what he's saying.

Answer 5

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Answer 6

Although dogs shouldn't be attributed with having human characteristics, they are intelligent enough to be able to understand the concept of, and execute, certain actions that their owners require of them - if these actions are asked in a way that dogs find rewarding. So, with this rule in mind, owners have to be clever as well and find a way of training their dog that actually works quickly and efficiently. The eBook I wrote explains how to achieve this ideal - how to speak “dog” so that you’re able to communicate effectively with your four-legged friend.
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Answer 7

There is no 'cookie cutter' method for training, just as there are no 'cookie cutter' dogs. Not all training styles work on every single dog or dog issue. I have no opinion about him or his method either way. He is a man using the method that best suits his needs. The one issue I have with the theory he is using is the fact that, we (human beings) are not capable of filling a true 'alpha' role. Canines have a completely different set of rules to deal with social interactions than human beings do. On top of that humans do not have the same instinct or 'ancestral memory' as a canine to run off of. By seeking to step into a role that we are not 'hardwired' to fill we put ourselves and our dogs into a state of limbo. This can have disastrous results. I prefer the methods outlined here:
http://www.naturaldogblog.com
They work for me, they are working for my dog and it doesn't involve mucking about trying to fit into a 'society' I'll never fully understand.

Answer 8

I like Cesar and enjoy his show.
Went to the site Forsaken gave you and I think I like this guy better...never thought I'd say that,I've been a Cesar fan a long time.

Answer 9

I think it really depends on different people. I love my dogs, I'm only strict when I have to be which ceasar would not approve of. One of my dogs is very obedient and always listens and follows me everwhere but he walks in front of me (which would also be disapproved) but he's attached to me because i've had him since 2 weeks - i was the first thing he saw when he opened his eyes. my other dogs are also well behaved and would listen to me but not as attached - either way i believe i dont need to use strict methods in ceasar's show. But still he is definitely a good animal behaviorist as well as trainer.

Answer 10

Now I admit I saw one special with him and thats it. What I didn't like was that he was parading his "new positive " methods and they were not - they were the old traditional ones. Now if it get peple to actually train its good but to be blunt its fraud.
The second problem I saw was he pronounced a dog "cured" after a short traing session and yeah the dog learned he couldn't steal food - off THAT table in the studio, while on lead with Ceasar holding the lead. Good start but a guarentee at home with no lead & no Ceasar he'd take food - it take longer than THAT.....

Answer 11

I don't agree with him but it doesn't mean he is not right. I just do not care for the way he trains dogs.

I treat my dogs like they are children. If they saw Cesar they would pee in their pants.......That is how scared they would be of him. I would be too. We'll stay just the way we are. He is too mean for us. My boys get a bit feisty some times, but my kids did too & I didn't put them in a cage.............