Is the Doberman Pinscher Breeder that I have chosen trying to scam me?Should I trust Her?

Question

I've been looking to purchase a puppy for almost 2 years now and finally found a breeder. After almost two years of researched I started of with visiting the breeders house and meeting the parents of the pups , asking all the questions about temperment/history etc...
She said that the puppy comes with:
the 3 shots done (which shots she didnt specify and when I asked she just said.. "you know the 3 first shots)
Dewormed
Tail docked
Ears cropped
I've seen the puppies and they appear alert and healthy. Their eyes are clear, they have a glossy coat and the crate doesn't smell bad.
The parents appear fine as well.
*She showed me "the registration papers" and the test results for the pups and parents*
The puppy is only $ 500
(This can't be real XD, usually doberman pups go for about $ 1 500 around here)

Answer 1

Is it limited or full registration? A good breeder sells on limited registration, are the parents tested for all breed genetic issues? Do you know what tests need to be looked for? Are the tests in date, cerf, cardio, thyroid etc should be done yearly only hips/elbows and a vetgen dna are done once and considered good for life. Who are they registered with AKC or a paper registry? What kind of health/temperament/genetic warrenty do they have and for how long? Most genetic issues will not show up till at least 2, many much later so a 1yr guarentee is really only good for something congenital like a heart murmer your vet would find the first checkup. What is her policy if something does go wrong under guarentee, refund of money or another pup? If the pup has something genetic wrong do you really want another one from her or from the same parents? Does she require nu-vet supplement to keep a guarentee? Breeders get a kick back from the company from nuvet and most vets dont think its needed or helps a pup at all. Are both parents in-house? what was her goal or reason for breeding those two dogs? Is either parent sound sensitive or spooky? It is genetic.

Are the parents titled in conformation or a working titles to show they are worthy of being bred? Have they passed the temperament test themselves? What about the pedigree, is it full of ch dogs, working titled dogs or untitled pets?

Ear crops can be lovely quality show crops or short military crops with no bell trimming, there is a vet near me that crops at 9 days old and never touches the bell, the crops look like pitbull crops and are ugly the dogs would have been better off left natural.
Are the pups raised in the house underfoot or in a outside kennel, are they socialized?

Message me with info on the breeder or her website and I will personally check them out for you. Its very easy to get taken when you do not know what to look for or ask. I would love to know who this is for myself.

Can they provide refferals and pictures of past pups? Do they have a right of first refusal or at least willing to take back any dog they made for any reason at any time to rehome rather than it end up in a shelter? Can they provide info on their vet as a reference as to how well they care for thier own dogs? Do they keep up with thier pups and their pups health issues? Will they be there if you need help or have questions? Will they help you with posting or housebreaking tips?

Do YOU understand that some dobes NEVER outgrow eating things like socks, stuffing out of toys, rocks and other things that will eventually cause a blockage and an emergency surgery if you do not crate or watch them like a hawk? Some do it their entire lives!!!

Dobes as a breed have a lot of health issues, the best you can do is stack the deck in your favor with a pup from health tested, long lived lines of the type of activity level and temperament you can live with. They are NOT all created equal. The perfect dog for schutzhund would drive the average owner who wants a house pet off the edge, and the person who wants a schutzund drivey dog would not be happy with one who lacks over the top prey drive. Within the breed is a wide range, a good breeder will match the pups personality with the owner and the owners intended use of the dog. A bad breeder lets you pick by looks and wishes you luck.

Join dobermantalk.com and ask about the breeder or kennel they are a very knowledgeable group of doberman savy people. You can learn a lot of the issues that people never hear about until they have a dobe. They are a great dog IF they are the right dog for you.

Answer 2

Rule 1 when buying a dog/puppy: if you don't feel you can trust the breeder, go somewhere else. Doesn't matter how good they are. If you feel something is off then you are probably not going to have a good relationship with your breeder which is necessary if you have problems.

What tests and papers were you shown? Dobermans should have CERTIFICATES from OFA (Orthepedic Foundation For Animals - www.offa.org) for their hips at least and preferably elbows as well. You can search the dog's registered name on the website and find out if they're there as well. They also need CERF which is an eye certification (needs to be done yearly) but many don't have that. Just the vet saying the dog is okay doesn't count. Vets are not specialists and can easily miss things that the OFA and CERF vets are specially trained to find. You might also want the parents to have OFA Cardiac certification. Heart murmurs are a common problem in the doberman breed.

If you're in North America and the registration papers are not AKC (American Kennel Club), UKC (UNITED Kennel Club, not the other UKC), or CKC (CANADIAN Kennel Club, not the other CKC) then I'd probably be a bit leary unless they have FCI (the best of the foreign registries) papers which is unlikely. Import lines generally go for way more than $500 even for pet puppies.

Does this woman offer a guarantee that lasts at least 2.5 years? That is the bare minimum for a guarantee as you cannot certify a dog before 24 months.

I really recommend just finding a different breeder. You don't trust this person and that's not a good sign. You need to buy from someone you trust. If that means you need to buy from someone further away, just do it. You can always get references. Both parents don't necessarily need to be on site but the dam really should be. Many people go to outside studs because that dog was the best choice for their female so it's not unusual to not be able to see him. You should still be able to get copies of his papers, health certificates, and titles though as well as contact information for his owner. If you have any other questions, I suggest going to the national doberman breed club and asking for referals.

By the way, $500 for a PET puppy on spay/neuter agreement isn't too unusual. If that's for full registration though, I'd be a bit nervous myself. A good doberman from good parents with full registration plus a good contract would be $1000-$2500 depending on the breeder and the quality of the dogs. Good luck with this pup or any other you choose.

Answer 3

There are a lot of proffesional breeders out there. They will be the ones that can tell you exactly what has been done to the pups, the shots that they have received (in detail) and any medical history. Imagine a car fax for pups. That's what you need, only a hundred times more detailed. If the breeder can't provide that, then you're taking a huge risk in purchasing a pup from that breeder. This breeder that you're talking about may be a good person that is trying to do the best she can, but simply isn't the kind of breeder that I would buy from. I work at a vet clinic, and I have seen my share of pups that come in from owners who recently purchased them from breeders simulure to what you are describing. They come in with parvo, Giardia, and a variaty of other diseases that come from either parents, or enviornment. The best way to go is from a well known, well established breeder that has a list of refferals that you can wrap the puppy in when you take it home.

Answer 4

Also go talk to the Vet. that did the shots and the docking and who will be doing the ears. Doublecheck on those tests the parents had.

Ask to see the puppy sales contract. Make sure the price is clearly noted. Do not give the breeder any money until you take the pup home.

The pups will not be registered individually with the AKC at this point. They will have a form you will send in to register your pup.

Sometimes pups go for less than you expect. I got an inexpensive Chihuahua after the breeder had financial problems and had to get money fast.

Answer 5

I am very sad to have just read about your Doberman and it's loss. What a brave DoberKid you had! Remember, she isn't dead because of you -- but rather because of the low-life scum that broke into your home. Your "Guardian Angel" was doing what her heart told her to do -- protect a loved one. I am a 5 time Doberman Guardian, and I know how hard a loss is. You have my deepest sympathy. As for a new Doberman and a breeder that offers EXCELLENT quality dogs -- I would urge you to investigate the DPCA's web site. They have a national breeder directory on-line, broken down by state. Check out the direct link I have included below. FYI -- with any purchase, ask A LOT of questions. Just because a breeder is affiliated with DPCA does not mean they are turning out great puppies. Many "excellent" breeders turn out vWd dogs that are affected. So again, ask questions. I've included the link to the DPCA's health concerns page. This list gives you a starting point when talking to a breeder about health issues. I notice you said your Doberman came from Santa Clara. I know a lot of the breeders in the Bay Area as that is where I am located. There are a lot of Bay Area breeders I would NOT recommend. One I WOULD is Windsor Dobermans located slightly north of Santa Clara in Woodside. They are in the DPCA's on-line directory and I have had (as has my husband) extensive discussons with them about our next Dobe pup. I hope your heart is able to heal soon. Your brave DoberKid is still with you. Hold that knowledge close to your heart.

Answer 6

I would definitely ask her for references...previous puppy buyers for example, or her vet's name and number...and check them out. $500 for a pet quality puppy with first shots (although it would make me VERY nervous that she couldn't/wouldn't tell you exactly what vaccinations...any breeder worth purchasing from should be able to tell you what vaccine by name right off the top of their head) and limited pet registration papers is reasonable. ANY doberman puppy that you get should already be docked if you want a dog with a docked tail (an import from Europe or a dog from a good breeder that you have specifically requested to be left natural is the only exception)...as that is done at about three days old and is not really expensive for the breeder (compared to other puppy-related costs anyway) HOWEVER, $500 for a dog from quality lines (even a pet-quality puppy) with cropped ears DOES sound too good to be true. The ear cropping surgery alone costs over $100 in most areas.

Answer 7

Is she a member of any breed clubs especially the national breed club? Are the parents titled? Or at least pointed? If they are working lines, what titles, if any do they have? Have they been OFA'd? Have they had all appropriate genetic tests for the breed? Do you understand or has she explained the test results so that you understand what they mean?

You can't always tell by appearance so don't go by that, but if you don't feel comfortable with her or with her answers, I would not purchase a puppy from her. And, the price being 3 times less than the average price in your area is certainly a red flag. Can you get references from her and check them out? http://www.dpca.org/ is the web site for the Doberman Pinscher Club of America. http://www.uniteddobermanclub.com/ This web site states that it's more for working Dobes. I'm not familiar with it, but check it out also. See if anyone knows anything about this breeder or not.

Answer 8

If it's a pet quality pup from a responsible breeder and she thinks that you are a good match, then shure, its possible.

The question is "Is she a responsible breeder?"

Does she show or did she show? Or compete the dogs in a working environment? The answer should be "yes"

Why did she breed the dogs? The answer should be "To get the perfect Doberman for showing/competing"

Did she ask you a ton of questions and check you out? Again, the answer should be "yes".

Is there a spay/neuter clause in the contract? "yes" again

Did she follow the AKC breeding guidelines? http://www.akc.org/breeders/resources/guide_to_breeding_your_dog/index.cfm again, "yes" is the only answer.

Is she an active member of her national breed club and her local breed club? Or does she have a good reason that she isn't? A good reason would be "I think they are too liberal in certifying breeders" or "I think the president is an unprofessional twit because x,y, and z." "I hate their rules, no one should tell me what to do with my dog" or "Those clubs are only for snobs" are not good reasons.

Here's more help: http://www.pbrc.net/breeding3.html

http://www.dpca.org/buy.sell.html

I have no idea if she's legit based on the info you've provided. While what's you've mentioned is important, it's a given with a good breeder.

Answer 9

1-get refeences of other buyers and contact them

2-they also need their dewclaws done

3-make her give you the name of her vet, and who performed the testing on the pups as well as the parents, anyone can makeup those papers...call the vet yourself or go visit her vet..

3-get shot record, make sure shots have been done and it says which shots, not just the firt 3 shots, if the pups are ready to be sold, they should have had the 2nd round of puppy shots, and another deworming..

4-ask for pedigree, check the bloodlines also..

5-yes, I think this breeder is trying to scam you, by not wanting to tell, which shots and beating around the bush..

6- have you ask yourself, if dobies around here go for 1500.00, then why is she selling these pups for only 500.00....something is wrong...is she a puppy mill, does she have alot of dogs around and alot of litters that you can see,.

7-you said crate does not smell bad, have these pups been kept in crate ever since they have been born...

8-email AKC, American Kennel Club in New York, see if they have her as a reputable breeder, and have they heard o her.

9-call your local Better Business Bureau and see if any complaints have been filed against her for any of the pups she has told to people..

investigate all before you buy from anyone, it will save you a heartache, and maybe alot of money...

good luck

Answer 10

In my opinion, there are a lot of reasons for concern with this breeder. Most have all ready been stated by prior posters.

In addition, many posters have directed you to the Doberman Pinscher Club of America's Web Site. While being part of this organization does not mean one is ethical or completely above board, the tips provided for both buyers and sellers (http://www.dpca.org/buy.sell.html) are very helpful. Reading this page should raise a few red flags in your mind.

As with any purchase, ask A LOT of questions. Just because a breeder is affiliated with DPCA or AKC does not mean they are turning out great puppies. Many "good" breeders turn out vWd dogs that are affected. So again, ask questions.

Hope that helps!