Can an inbred Westie puppy still be 'pedigree' ?

Question

The 10mo puppy I purchased was described as parents both Show dogs and didn't have pictures because they were on the road a lot. I'm looking over the 'United' Pedigree document and her dad was pretty old and the mom was young. Her dad is also her mom's father, so she was inbred only 1 Generation back.

This was not explained or emphasized once when asking about the quality of the breed. She seems underweight, about 2.7 - 3lbs and 10 weeks old. Her hair seems a bit thin on top of her head, but mentally she is very developed and friendly. I've had the dog for 48hours and considering returning her because I'm upset that inbreeding wasn't mentioned. But I don't think the breeder will offer a refund at this point.

So pedigree dogs can be inbred at any point without having to tell the buyer... I didn't notice it on the papers until I had already gotten the puppy home.

What would you guys do?

OK, so my question wasn't stated properly.

I should have asked more if inbreeding is allow with AKC or United registartion?

OR is there any responsibility to the breeder to explain these kinds of things or is it just buyer beware?

That's crazy how varied everyones responds' are. From 'Congratulations you might have a show dog, to 'report the breeder''

I'm so confused. I'll definitely call the breeder but she's an ex-vet tech and she makes everything seem normal when I ask her things, but I still feel she's being misleading and fishy.

http://www.unitedregistry.com/

Right, I've definitely learned to be more careful and less trusting to breeders. The woman is a good talker and confident but I feel misrepresented the dog and its health. It's got other minor health issues that might all be puppy related or not. Weeping eyes, red paws, coughing clear fluid in the mornings, and needed a flea dip. It's looking healthier already though just with better food and a bath and hair cut.

Answer 1

I would try and return the dog but since you say this disclaimer was listed on her papers you may not have any re-course but to keep her.
Were you planning to breed/show her?

Answer 2

If you're not happy with the pup.. return it to the breeder.

As a breeder I would be tremendously upset if someone bought a puppy from me and was not completely and utterly thrilled with it.

Breeders occasionally inbreed *IF* they know the pedigree well and are looking to solidify certain features. My foundation b*tch was the product of a niece/uncle breeding that statistically probably had a higher coefficiency of inbreeding than a brother sister or father daughter breeding would have due to other commonalities in the pedigree.

For a Westie 3 lbs at 10 weeks is quite a good size. Coat on a dog cannot be completely determined at that age.

*I* would have done indepth research into the pedigree as well as the reasons for that SPECIFIC breeding well before purchasing the pup.

Edit: FWIW... the fact that you are not certain the breeder will offer a refund on a pup that you've had less than 3 days says more about the breeder than anything else... of course, the fact that they're registered through some bogus registry and not AKC, UKC, UK or Canadian Kennel Club says a lot too.

Answer 3

You didn't fully do your homework and got taken.

"United" is another one of those non-akc registries. That means that when a dog cannot qualify for an AKC registry, a bad breeder will register with any registry that will allow it.

The inbreeding isn't the issue. The lack of AKC papers and a breeder that's "too busy" to provide you with proof of pedigree and CH status is the issue.

Return the dog and visit the westie club to learn how to buy a proper dog - pet quality or show quality.

http://www.westieclubamerica.com/

http://www.pbrc.net/breeding3.html


**************************************************** added: I wouldn't even give this "breeder" a chance to explain. I'd give the dog back and lose her number. She obviously isn't breeding quality dogs, or she'd be proud to show you the pedigree papers full of CH's all over the place. She obviously isn't breeding quality dogs or the dogs would be AKC.

As far as the "congratulations" answer, it's 100% wrong. To show comformation with the AKC, the dog must be AKC. You will not ever have an AKC show dog if you don't have AKC papers. And since the parents were not AKC, you won't ever have AKC papers. And since it sounds like the dogs were not breeding quality to begin with, the chances are VERY SLIM that you have a show quality dog on your hands.

If you are confused, click the westie club link I gave you and read up. Then, click the other links I gave you. They aren't gross-out links. One is a chart that designates BYBs and good breeders and another is full of tips and guidelines. I promise, no "make you cry" pics or brow beating. Just info.

Answer 4

Pedigree simply means that the parents are the same breed. while inbreeding is not good, there are unfortunately no laws against it. While the breeding should not have been done, it obviously did, and the breeder was only concerned about making a buck off the puppies. Therefore, I think you are right in that the breeder will not offer a refund.

There are both good and bad to keeping the dog. The good is that you can give the dog a good home, where if he is returned to the breeder and they cannot resell him, he will probably end up in a shelter.

The bad is due to the inbreeding, he may develop physical or mental issues down the way - there is no way to tell.


Personally, I would first call the breeder and explain your concerns. If they offer a refund, then I would return the dog and look for another breeder to work with.

If they will not offer a refund, I would keep the dog and get it immediately into a good basic obedience class. Socialized and trained properly, the dog can be a great pet, despite his background.

Answer 5

Inbreeding is not an issue if done by a knowledgable breeder.

But I have concerns about this "United" pedigree? WTF is that? And any "show dog" will have pictures, if only win photos. I find it odd that BOTH parents are on the road. Something sounds fishy to me.

EDIT: Okay, that's one of the scam registries that some "breeders" use because they can't use the AKC. The papers are worthless. They even register mixed breeds.

"Weeping eyes, red paws, coughing clear fluid in the mornings, and needed a flea dip."

No good breeder would let a puppy or dog go in this condition.

Sorry, you did not get your pup from a good breeder.

Answer 6

For one thing - there is no way on earth that the mother of the puppies could be back at the dog shows that soon after having a litter!
And ALL of us who show dogs get photos taken at the dog shows. This woman was definitely a liar.
You definitely got ripped off & I would get your money back.
As far as inbreeding & linebreeding - there is nothing wrong with it if the breeder does so wisely.
This is quite common with show dogs. But that DOES NOT mean that this woman shows her dogs - it sounds like she's just a big ol liar.
The fact that this person can't even register their dogs with the AKC is a BIG reason to return the puppy. Not to mention that your puppy was sick & flea infested.
Definitely get your money back!

Answer 7

If, and this is a HUGE if, the breeder is very, very knowledgeable in the breed, you can get your best dogs through an inbreeding. It's definitely not grounds for returning a puppy.

When I was breeding, I got the best puppy I ever produced through an inbreeding - there's nothing wrong with it if you have an in-depth knowledge of your dog's pedigree and you don't do inbreedings too often.

If she's got thin hair on top of her head, that's got nothing whatever to do with being the result of an inbreeding - it only means that that's the way her parents were.

Answer 8

Even cows have a pedigree, all a pedigree does is say who the parents are.
All registration does is say what breed the parents are, it has nothing to do with if they should or shouldn't have been bred.

The LINEBREEDING (not inbreeding) isn't the problem, "United" is a scam registry started by people that have had their AKC privileges revoked, and THAT is what should have screamed S C A M in you little ole ear.

Answer 9

Just by the health issues-- I would return the dog, demand your money back and ask why she would sell you a sick animal. If you decide to keep the puppy, you need to see a vet asap, because coughing up fluid and weepy eyes is NEVER a good sign and can be symptoms of several diseases.

Answer 10

Line breeding is acceptable by breeders in the know about such things. I bred for 25 years I never really understood it. However my wife did. I don"t recognize anything but A.K.C. but that's just me. But line breeding is actually the best chance of getting the best qualities in a pup.