To ALL homeschool critics?

Question

Can ANY of you give me an actual study or statistic that shows or suggests that homeschooled kids have a HARDER TIME THAN PUBLICLY EDUCATED KIDS in the areas of
*Academics
*Adjusting to social environments
*going on to college/the workforce
*etc.
I mean, we homeschoolers can and DO present facts/stats all day long that show that homeschooled children excel in all of these areas despite what the stereotypes may have you believe, yet again and again the same "blah, blah, homeschooled kids need certified teachers to do well, blah, blah, have a hard time in social situations, blah, blah" comes up.
I'm just wondering where THOSE facts are coming from, because I've certainly never come across THAT set of statistics.

And what about the COUNTLESS in public school who commit violence? ONE homeschooled kid vs. HOW MANY public school kids? That STILL suggests that publicly educated kids have a harder time.

Again Trinity, sorry. Those are not valid statistics......in fact most of those are either opinion or highly arguable, and not accepted as fact.They simply are not statistics based on unquestionable research. Then again, teachers like you are one of the reasons we homeschool anyways-sheep, sheep, sheep.

You are saying Trin. that kids don't learn "jingle Bells, Batman smells" outside of school-and also that this is important? Or that enduring public abuse is healthy for kids-God forbid you have any! Or that since some people were educated in underfunded schools, their kids should also be forced to go to underfunded schools-I appreciate you having a cause and all, sweetie, but that is all weak. Parents should keep their kids far away from "educators" (more like Myth-pushers) like yourself

MamaPj-Yes, Trinity's answer DOES support homeschool, however as all of her responses consistently show that SHE IS ANTI-HOMESCHOOL, that leads one to believe that she actually BELIEVES that those are good reasons, which frightens me considering that she has been a teacher for "32 years".

Answer 1

You're going to get a lot more "blah blah"...just to warn you. And I imagine most of the critics who answer will tell you they know homeschoolers first hand who are like this... Or something like "my mother's sister's daughter's friend's cousin is homeschooled" and say how antisocial the kid is... Also, lots of critics confuse being antisocial with simply being more mature and on a higher academic/developmental level than one's peers...so OF COURSE you wouldn't fit in with the cookie-cutter public school kid your age. People are going to come on here now and probably tell you that their neighbor homeschools her kids and they never leave the house... But do they stay home every day 24/7 to spy on their neighbor and observe every detail of their neighbors' lives? I doubt it. It's all a bunch of ignorant, uninformed misconceptions. If I were you I'd pay no mind to the answers critics give here. They have no experience, and obviously no knowledge of what they are talking about... or else they'd know better.

"Well, a homeschool kid went on a killing spree..."

If that's all you people have to back up your misconceptions about homeschooling... Well that must mean public school REALLY messus kids up, considering the number of public schoolers that go on shooting sprees in their schools or later in life.

***UPDATE*** I just read Trinity's ubsurd answer...which was basically a bunch of questions, so I thought I'd answer those as well. Here 'goes...

"Most parents were educated in the underfunded public school system, and so are not smart enough to homeschool their own children. " Well if they're so horribly impaired that they can't follow a simple homeschool curriculum guide, use an answer key, and learn alongside their child (like my mother is doing with me in my French class) then why are they allowed to even raise children? The hardest thing teachers really need to learn in college is how to handle an eclectic group of 30 some-odd kids, and teach to the tune of a standardized test. Obviously unnecessary for a homeschool parent, and usually by the time the highschool subjects are reached, the kid is working independently and seeking help from MANY resources, not just mom and dad.

"Children who receive one-on-one homeschooling will learn more than others, giving them an unfair advantage in the marketplace. This is undemocratic." It isn't unfair if EVERYONE is allowed to homeschool if they choose to. Are you saying that school is designed to "dumb down" the kids that are smarter than their peers...so that their peers wont have to work harder to keep up in the real world? Parents, do you want your kids in a system like this? I think THAT is undemocratic.

"How can children learn to defend themselves unless they have to fight off bullies on a daily basis?" By developing a strong sense of self-worth... and therefore being able to walk away from a fight without batting an eye, making the bully's efforts entirely futile. This is something homeschooling is great for.

"Ridicule from other children is important to the socialization process." Why? So kids can learn to ridicule other kids who don't deserve it? And did it ever occur to anyone that homeschoolers see other kids/teens/toddlers/adults/seniors CONSTANTLY on a DAILY BASIS? People who just may decide to ridicule them? School and home aren't the only two places in the world...

"Children in public schools can get more practice "Just Saying No" to drugs, cigarettes and alcohol." Homeschoolers learn the same things from their parents, DARE programs, and other adult role models. Again, school and home aren't the only two places in the world. Anywhere where there are other kids/teens (and homeschoolers see plenty of them) they're going to have to deal with some degree of peer pressure. I bet the reason it doesn't seem like it is because HSers don't give in to it as often as PSers seem to.

"Fluorescent lighting may have significant health benefits." Fluorescent lighting is said to reduce your energy level, and can sometimes limit vision... Sunlight is much better, but in school you don't get nearly enough time to be outside in the open air.

"Publicly asking permission to go to the bathroom teaches young people their place in society." Young people should realize their worth and importance in society early. You can know you're worth something and still respect those who deserve it. Young people can't learn to be adults if they are forced to be dependent on someone for something they are fully capable of doing themselves... If it is necessary for a student to ask permission (and with 30 some-odd kids to keep track of, I can see how it would be) then the student should be able to do so privately and with dignity... Or maybe not ask at all, but sign out before leaving. Parents, again, is this who you want in charge of your kids?

"The fashion industry depends upon the peer pressure that only public schools can generate." So our children are advertising tools? I thought we went to school to learn, not to advertise.

"Public schools foster cultural literacy, passing on important traditions like the singing of "Jingle Bells, Batman smells, Robin laid an egg..."" Because that's a REAL important one... Kids can learn that on the playground, from their sports team mates or dance partners or fellow club members. Again, SCHOOL AND HOME ARE NOT THE ONLY TWO PLACES IN THE WORLD. And personally I think as a teacher you should realize there is more to culture than "jingle bells, batman smells"

"Homeschooled children may not learn important office career skills,like how to sit still for six hours straight." Homeschoolers aren't being conditioned for menial labor like pushing paper. Homeschoolers tend to know where they're going in life, and develop the skills they'll need to meet their goals. If a homeschooler desires to work in an office pushing paper all day long, that person will have the self-motivation to achieve that. But they wont have it forced on them from an early age. You may find HSers working in the ER, the fire department, the research labs, computer science labs. They may be the ones developing the educational software you use in your classroom right now! They may be pharmicests, electritions, architects, pilots, restaurant managers, chefs, engineers, marine biologists, physicists, psychologists, teachers outside the public schools, writers, photojournalists, news anchors, astronomers, the sky is the limit. And the reason for that is because they aren't being conditioned from age 5 to fit a cookie-cutter standard for society's workforce.

Lots of grasping at straws going on here. This is interesting.

Answer 2

I do homeschooling but its all online. And all of my teachers are certified. There are real teachers. I can call them or email them its my choice. Its all based on the persons personality. Don't let what people say get to you. I went to public school from Preschool - Freshman year. Now I do the online school. And I prefer it. All my friends laugh at me and call me crazy because I wanted to try it. But I still get interaction with people all the time!
I will chat away about nothing for hours on end. So I will do good later on. Because I will have good social skills, All I have to say is.


SCREW THOSE IDIOTIC PEOPLE WHO THINK I WON'T HAVE A GOOD CHANCE. =)


Also my mom and dad didn't even want me to do the homeschooling thing I wanted to!

They both work too. So they don't really do my school only if I have a question like if it was homework!

Answer 3

You know, what trinity posted can be seen as a humourous dib at public schools!!!! It was originally written by a superintendent who wanted to criminalize homeschooling and thought that those reasons would prove public schools' worth. However, all of those reasons are justifiable reasons TO homeschool.

To PD: you really ought to go a step further in finding out facts. You have first of all NOT provided the stats and studies done. The boy who was homeschooled had been KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL sometime ago--he had issues long before he homeschooled. And most homeschoolers are NOT fanatical Christians. SHOW the stats that prove it.

ADDED:
To mama_paj: Trinity is a well-known ANTI-homeschooler. She usually includes some sort of insult against parents/homeschoolers and is always negative. What she posted was NOT meant tongue-in-cheek--it came from a memo that a California superintendent of schools sent out to teachers, as part of her attempt to discourage and criminalize homeschooling. Trinity must share the same point of view as the superintendent to not see how all those supposed plusses for the public school system are really negatives.

ADDED: mama_paj, thanks for the clarification. Some more searching didn't produce an actual memo, so now I understand that it was Scott Ott poking fun at Joanne Mendoza. But that Trinity believes it's some sort of proof that homeschooling is bad is really, really sad!

Answer 4

We need no more studies, or statistics to prove the obvious.
Home schooling has proved to be a very viable alternative to any form of conventional schooling, both public, and private.

To PD; wow you give assuming a new definition.
To Trinity, you have just made our point.

Since your post argues that public schooled parents are not qualified to teach their children at home, it simply admits that the public schools did/do a poor job of preparing their students, because if they did/do a good job, anyone educated in, and graduated from the public school should be more than qualified to teach their own, wouldn't you agree?

On the other hand you have just given everyone who reads your post 10 very good reasons why they should home school their children.
Thanks:-)

Answer 5

There are no facts to back up their claim. I am sure they are trying hard to find them though. Maybe that will let them see the facts for themselves and be better informed.

The Colorado shooter, from what I understand, was thrown out of school. He was also 24 doing on line school, I believe that is different from the approach most home school families take.

The reason that media focuses on this is because its different. No other reason. I have never heard them say about the countless public school students that commit crimes, "Oh, and he was in the subculture of public school!"

Added:
Can it be! Trinity actually has posted a response FOR home schooling! I wonder if she realized at the top of that article she found it said this:

Here is a funny "top ten list" about homeschooling and public school. Scott Ott wrote it for his SATIRE weblog ScrappleFace.com

LOL

Answer 6

I am so proud. A friend of mine recently stood up to some people who were giving the same tired line about socialization.

..and as far as the comment about religious fanatics:
Are you saying that because those beliefs do not match your own, citizens should not be allowed to teach those beliefs to their own children? Do you really think it is the job of the state to "save" these children from their parents influence? That idea is more than a little frightening.

I'm a homeschooler. I do not share the religious beliefs you write about. I'll disagree openly with most of what the far right has to say, but I'll defend to my death their right to say it. That is how this country is supposed to work. We each raise our families as our own conscience dictates. To take away anyone's right to do so threatens everyone's right to do so.

EDIT: Anyone else noticing a strange lack of critics on this answer? Where are all the haters? Shouldn't they be here with volumes of research to back up their critiques?
EDIT: Mamma PJ has made some excelent points. Why all the thumbs down? What she says about school prayer is entirely factual. She is not bashing and a risk of teaching religion as science is that a child will not be able to excell in scientific fields.
EDIT: YSN, who said you could not be a Christian and a doctor?

Answer 7

They won't answer your question with the facts because there is absolutely no serious research which even suggests what they contend.

But, I am sure, they won't let the truth stop them.

*** UPDATE: Well, I guess at least 2 people so far have been unable to find any real evidence! :-0

*** UPDATE: PD - I guess I had better tell our family physician, our dentist and our vet that they must either forget their faith or give up their professions. Our doctor by the way is very active in the Doctors without Borders program / organization, has adopted many children from 3rd world countries, and helped us make our decision to homeschool!

*** UPDATE: Mama_P... What is up with the rant about science and First Amendment law? Seems like an intentional redirect of the argument and you provide no research to back up your contentions. Allow me to help you out! Numerous studies show that homeschooled students score well above public school counterparts in math and science on standardized achievement tests such as the SAT (see link below). So, regardless of your *personal* opinion, data proves you wrong.

On the religion in schools issue... First, it has absolutely nothing to do with the question. Second, I provide a link to the American Athiest site which details the Supreme Court decisions effecting this very issue and if you read through the material you should note that even this athiest organization expresses concern that the series of school prayer decisions may have the unintended effect of essentially establishing a "religion of secularism" in public schools.

On the evolution issue: You state that no serious scientific debate about evolution has taken place in some 60 years. That seems rather contrary to the scientific method. Perhaps some debate should be allowed. Moreover, if you look up the definition of scientific hypothesis and scientific theory and give honest consideration to which definition best fits evolution you will conclude that evolution is much closer to being a hypothesis and not a theory. If I had access to a variety of public school science textbooks I am confident that I could show you that evolution is being taught as neither hypothesis nor theory but as fact. Just the fact that proponents will not allow opposing view points supports this view. I will provide these factual details to back up my point. In 2005, the U. S. Supreme court disallowed the following from public school textbooks: A notice that stated that "evolution is a theory and not a fact and the evidence should be carefully studied and considered. "

The reason cited by the U. S. Court: First Amendment. Can anyone say "religion of secularism" or how about "intellectual dishonesty" or how about "blatantly contrary to scientific ideals?"

Give us research to support your positions!

Answer 8

Wow, PD, are you ever wrong.

Homeschoolers are from all walks of life - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Pagan, Atheist, Agnostic...and they don't all learn the same things. That's kind of the point of having them be homeschooled...they have an education that is specifically tailored to their needs.

Mama_Pajama_1...many homeschoolers don't teach our kids that evolution is wrong, or nonexistent. My son is planning to be a doctor, and he studies evolution right alongside creation. He studies both in-depth, reviews the evidence, and makes his own choices as to which he thinks makes the most sense. He also sees the difference between micro-evolution (adaptation, etc.) and macro-evolution. He completely believes in micro-evolution and really enjoys studying genetics and such. While he doesn't personally believe in macro-evolution, he understands the theories and reasoning behind it (on a higher-than-age-appropriate level), and can discuss it with pretty much anyone.

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He's in 5th grade, by the way, and takes 2-3 science courses at a time. He also does outside research on his own in several scientific fields, including biology, geology, astronomy, and physics. He hasn't gotten to high school bio yet, only being 10, but he is 2-4 years above grade level in both science and math. He'll start bio in a couple of years, we'll tackle that then. When he hits the high school years, he'll be taking college courses through concurrent enrollment at a university in town, where he'll get both views taught by professors.

He has had a chance to discuss his views with degreed scientists in many different fields, however, and while they sometimes agreed to disagree, many of them were impressed with how well-spoken and informed he was. I'm sorry that his education at age 10 isn't good enough for you, though.

Thank you for the site, by the way. I checked it out and it's very interesting and well put together. As he studies and compares both sides openly, he'll find it interesting as well. I do appreciate it.

And I never said "all homeschoolers" either...I said many. Maybe you could read my response a bit closer?>>

When people teach creation vs. evolution, it's almost always macro-evolution that they are refuting...which, by the way, has very little to no solid evidence. It's origin science, not applied, practical science. Micro-evolution has been observed and proven, macro-evolution has not.

Trinity...for once, I love your response :-) Giggle! I gave you a thumbs-up.

Answer 9

Honestly, I just wanted to comment to Trinity's response, I have seen this on homeschool lists as a response to why people should homeschool, lol. Most homeschoolers consider that list to be such a joke!

Answer 10

BRAVO! The "teachers" today are mostly under or uneducated themselves. Home schooling is the future.

Get the book "The dumming down of our children", it will point out how incompetent the so-called public education sysytem is.

Answer 11

Dont listen to the critic's,they are mindless wonders anyway.I know of several families that homeschool,and they're children ARE better in education and are FINE socially! Keep homeschooling,it's the right thing to do!