Isn't secularism responsible for all the modifications to Christianity that make it tolerable to people today?

Question

I know "secularism" is supposed to be the great Bogey to people who fancy themselves to be "religious." But consider Christianity as it was even 100 years ago, as compared to today. "Conservative" Christians in 2007 would've found the atmosphere among "liberal" Christians in 1907 to be absolutely stifling and oppressive.

Go back 300 years, and Christians were still hanging witches. Why? Because they could. Because religion and law were so identified that if you developed the religious conviction that your neighbor was a witch because her clothes were nicer, you could go to the law and expose her, and they'd hang her as was proper.

So what changed? Was it just an organic development within Christianity that caused people to wake up and realize that they were actually working wickedness - or at least nonsense - in the name of good? No. It was the influence of rationalism, humanism, secularism - all the things that "religious" people still pretend are the great plagues of society.

I know Christians are required to disagree with everything I've said here. But it's interesting that when you bring up the atrocities that have been committed in the name of "Christ" in the past, the inevitable refrain from believers is "Those people weren't really following Christ." Well, they thought they were, and they were at least as well acquainted with Scripture as their modern critics! The Inquisitors, e.g., actually believed that by burning heretics at the stake, they were saving their souls from Hellfire. And it wasn't anything in Christianity itself that eventually softened this view. It was the influence of rational thought, and of what we would call "humanism."

taween - but obviously the "secular" courts were prepared to hang and burn people as witches because the courts were religious! That was my point. When I say "secularism," I'm talking about the idea that the law should not be directly connected with religion or irrational religious ideas.

Jon M does Christians proud, I have to say. If only they were all like him.

Answer 1

I don't think it even had to come from outside Christianity, per se. The very people who claimed to be Christians got tired of such ridiculous rules and started changing them. Hey, marriages turn sour - make divorce socially acceptable. Want some civil rights? - Change the interpretation of the Bible.

It seems that decent people have slowly turned the tide on the oppressive, controling nature of religion over time. Whereas fear reigned, they eventually came around to reason. These characteristics were not naturally a part of the original intended oppression of religion, but the evolution was necessary for the religion to survive. People won't put up with crap forever is what I'm trying to say. Eventually, people will see the silliness of all of the tenets of religion except perhaps goodwill toward other beings and religion will end completely.

Answer 2

That's a pretty good analysis. I think if you trace things back you'll find that all the positive changes to Christianity were the result of both the Reformation and the Renaissance. In the end the Renaissance proved more influential than the Reformation in shaping both modern society and Christianity. But you couldn't really have had one without the other: The Renaissance secularized learning and art, and the Reformation weakened the internal spiritual authority of the Catholic Church. The two together allowed for the individualism and freedom of intellect and conscience that we take for granted today.

Peace to you.

Answer 3

uhm I hope this can help, its just my point of view.

As I grow older and become more wiser I had become more broad minded on a number of things such as religion. The idea of that religion was started by a group of really smart people, whose sole purpose of creating it was to keep the entire community in check that wasn't as "morally inclined" is something that passes my mind sometimes.
an example. A misuderstanding among two people can be interpeted in a manner of ways if they dont know whats going on each others mind which would lead to only assumptions Like a black and white co worker (or if you like olden time's Jew's and Gentiles) had a heated argument and never really had face to face closure about. On their mind, they'll think that it was racially motivated. But the fact of the matter is that they had a misunderstanding over some little trivial matter. ONe guy is thinking one thing the other guy thinking another. Thus religion was built inthe basis of empathizing those who arent as "morally inclinced" so that they may have closure over something

Answer 4

I don't really understand it, myself.

I think that, in part, it's simply development, in itself.

Personally, I feel that there *may* have been a man named Jesus, and he may've had thoughts that pertained to religion; he may've even shared these thoughts with others. HOWEVER, I believe that it's all simply morphed communication.

Have you ever played "Telephone?" I used to play that, as a child. A group of people sit in a circle, and one person whispers something to the person next to them. That person them says it to the person next to them, who does the same, and so on. And as the people in the forementioned circle hear the whispered words, they often misunderstand it, hence passing on the wrong message -- and slowly, over time, the words change into a completely different message, by the time they reach back to the originator.

I think it's the same: A rational, atheistic idea, was morphed so many times, that it became theistic. It may've been due to miscommunication, or even people simply changing the story to create more drama and uniqueness or entertainment, as seems to be human nature.

At the time, I think religion was simply an excuse: People were so caught up with their own lack of answers in regards to the greatest questions of existence, that they became hasty in their search for the truth as to how we "got here," and similar aspects of life. As they became hasty, they were more willing to project inaccurate ideas simply to ease their own troubles about lack of answers.

However, as technology developed and flourished, we came to find other, more rational and scientifically acceptable theories and proofs.

Hence, the numbers of people that accepted science and evolution as opposed to religion, grew and grew, until the number was at least comparitive. After all, as things started, there were enough Christians and believers in general that they could overpower others, and shun them, without any major tribulations. But as the numbers of nonbelievers grew, the Christians lost power, and such power became equally distributed among all faiths, or lack thereof.

The rules became more lax, as did the thoughts of those that didn't conform to Christianity. If a parent believes that something shouldn't be very strict, they will raise their child to believe the same. The child will raise their children as such, and so on.

And the rest, I'm sure you can imagine.

Answer 5

That is so true. Actually you can see the difference in the U.S. today. The Christianity that my parents were raised with the Midwest is way different then the Christianity that is practiced on the West Coast today. I think that is why I can't take Christians serious. For example: The Purpose Driven Life. That is a horrible way to interpret the Christian faith. The fact that it is the number one selling book shows how far removed Christianity is removed from Christ. It is all lip service.

Answer 6

Directly after Messiah Yahshua ascended to Heaven, there was no such institution as the church. What is called the church today is miles & miles & miles away from the Nazarene Jewish Assembly/Ekklesia/Called out Ones, that followed Yahshua & brought Gentiles into the Way & taught them Torah. Paul/Sha'ul was a Jew & he taught Torah & Messiah, he did not start a new religion. The fact that the Jews of the time pushed the Gentile believers out of the synegogues, contributed to the church coming into existence & away from the teachings of Messiah, Peter, Paul, James, John & other Jewish leaders of the Little Flock. Christianity has played its part in bringing people back to God & Messiah, however instead of leading the people back to their roots, they have stopped at the sign post of 3 days & 3 nights, changed the sign post to 1day & 2 nights & called it easter instead of Passover, making Yahshua a gentile, Jesus. If I go to London & I stop at the a sign post that says 120 Miles London, have I reached London, NO! If I change the sign to read London, I am still not in London, I am 120 Miles away. Thats what has happened & christianity is the poorer for it. What should have been the Assemby/Congregation of THE WAY looks nothing like it was supposed to be, for all its good points Christianity has robbed the people of their heritage.

Answer 7

YES!!! This is a point many of us have been saying.
The church HAS been seduced by the world.
Many HAVE compromised.
I hope this is well read by others.
I hope it causes many to think about the directions they are taking.
And it continues even today...when we say there is an attack on Christianity, people deny it and scoff. The fact is, it's going on all the time, slowly, almost imperceptibly!

About the witch thing, we do know better now. I cannot justify those acts, no one can. It involved more than mere clothing though.

Answer 8

Christianity has traditionally been a religion of blood and torture. It would still be that way today if they could get organized.
Secularism isn't responsible for making religion tolerable. Who says religion is tolerable?

As for religious "arguments" it is interesting that every Christian has an infallible interpretation of the "word of God" that is different from everyone else. The message of the Bible is kill heretics, keep slaves and rape girls.

And one other thing, what page is the golden rule on in the Bible anyway? I can find stuff about people torturing each other...

Answer 9

(Note for Tawean: Actually here in America, Massachusetts was officially a Theocracy. The protestants there had a theocratic law and courts which were in no way secular. You are wholly correct on the aspects of the Catholic Church in Europe, but the instances HE is referencing are correct in terms of the early Colonies)

Answer 10

I'm a Christian and I agree.

What lots of fundamentalists, or "conservative Christians" see today as humanism is nothing more that the movement of the Holy Spirit, guiding religion away from the scrupulosity of rules and regulations toward Jesus's message of Love.

Exactly like the religious conservative status quo of Jesus's time were so mired in their own versions of God's will that they missed it entirely, today our religious conservatives are doing the same thing.

They diss humanism because it announces loudly that "Jesus has come in the flesh," and that love, not political power and greed, is the focus of spirituality and religion.

Just like the Pharisees back then didn't like that message, they still don't like it today.