Why do people equate praying to Mary with "worship"?

Question

In the Catholic understanding, prayer is a "request". When we pray to those who have gone to heaven ahead of us, we are making a "request" of them. And what is that request? It is that THEY pray for US. Protestants do it all the time, but they limit themselves to making this request only of people still on earth. In this, the protestant view of the Church is very narrow. You see, Romans 8: 38-39 says: "neither death nor life... ...neither the present nor the future.. ..neither height nor depth, nor anything else.. ..will be able to separate us". The Family of God transcends death. We ALL LIVE IN CHRIST.

It is important to note that praying to saints is not a requirement of Catholics, just an option: Just as a protestant doesnt HAVE to ask a friend to pray for them, but they can

Heb 12: 22-24 says that as we approach God, Jesus and the angels, we also approach "the spirits of righteous men made perfect". In other words, THE SAINTS

Oh, the intercession of fellow Christians in heaven also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"

I invite people to read this information:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

(sorry that was so long)
Ooops, forgot to ask a question:

Comments anyone?

TO Creation: Sorry, but people in heaven are not dead.

TO Alan S: Tell me, what does it feel like to be full of hate and bigotry - to quote verses out of one side of your mouth and spew lies out of the other? I'd really like to know

Answer 1

Because Catholic-haters will find any excuse possible for their bigotry and intolerance, and the Blessed Virgin is a highly-visible target. Never mind that there would have been no Savior without her fiat, or that she was Jesus' first disciple in a very real sense. She stored His words in her heart and pondered on all that He said, long before Peter and the others became His followers.

And we certainly wouldn't want it to be known that she was the only woman present at Pentecost in the upper room, now would we? Why, that might be too much like saying that she was honored and respected among the first Christians.

Face it: we will always be tarred with the "Mary worshippers" brush, no matter how many times we explain otherwise. Certain people have gotten it into their heads that we are a bunch of Mary idolators, and not one word we say will ever penetrate the dense jungle of misconceptions that passes for their views on Catholicism.

Edit:

CatholicCrusader, would you mind adding me to your Contacts list? I enjoy your questions and would like to be notified when you post one.

Answer 2

Short answer to the question; is the flawed understanding many Protestants have of what worship is, like the misreading of thefreedictionary.com. Combining 1.a and 1.b it says prayers by which love and devotion to a deity is expressed. But you have to go back to see what did the Jews understand by worship, it was principally by offering sacrifice and adoring God.

In answer to those who say we shouldn’t pray for each other, or ask others too, here are some words from Paul.
Eph 6:18 < pray always for all God's people.>; Rom 15:30 < join me in praying fervently to God for me. >; Col 4:3 < At the same time pray also for us>; 2 Thess 1:11 < That is why we always pray for you>

Are not the prayers of those who stand before God not better then ours here, for they see him face to face. For Scripture says he hears the prayer of the righteous, Proverbs 15:29, James 5:16. Who is more righteous then those who stand before him?

Answer 3

You got so tangled up in your own deception that you forgot that you DID ask a question. "Why do people equate praying to Mary with 'worship'?"

And the answer is that Catholics put Mary in place of Christ, petitioning the dead on behalf of the living, just as they seek to replace everything Christ. Mary is dead, asleep in Christ; she cannot hear your "requests" or intercede in your concerns and troubles. She will awake when all the saints awake, in the resurrection upon the return of Jesus Christ.

When you quote Scripture, like Romans 8: 38-39, you twist it to mean what you want, and make void the Word of God that says, in many places, the saints are yet asleep in their graves (Acts 2:29, John 11:13, Job 14:7-15, Isaiah 38:18, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 115:17, Luke 8:52-55, Ecclesiastes 9:10, 1 Thessalonians 4:14,16, etc...). Romans 8: 38-39 says nothing about the dead being awake and alive and able to intercede for anyone. Nor does it in any way imply that there is no death for the saints, for it is appointed for men to die once (Hebrews 9:27), without exclusion of the saints.

In all the Bible, not once is there any reference of a godly man petitioning the dead, nor is there ever any suggestion to do so. But rather, God rebukes those who think to do so (Isaiah 8:19).

Why do we think you worship Mary? Because you put her on a pedestal, above that of all other people, in a place God has not appointed to any man but Christ. You give her praises for things she has not done. You make requests of her that she cannot fulfill.

What is "worship?"
wor·ship (worship) n. 1. a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an IDOL, or a sacred object. b. The ceremonies, PRAYERS, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed. 2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
-- TheFreeDictionary (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/worship)

Isn't this how you act and feel toward Mary? It appears so. And so, it is said rightly of Catholics, that they do indeed WORSHIP Mary.

In regard to your twisting of 1 Tim. 2:1–4, is asking others to pray WITH us, the same as asking a dead person to pray FOR us? Again, you twist Scripture to your own desires, and your own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). The intercession that Paul wrote of is between the forces of darkness and the working of God's purpose. He wrote of the saints praying for "all men" who have not known God.

And again, you twist the Scriptures of Hebrews 12:22-24 to mean what you wish. It, like Romans 8: 38-39, says nothing about the state of the saints, whether they are awake or asleep in death.

Read Scripture for your self, and for what it says, not for what your deceived theologians say it means. Obey Christ Jesus, who taught that we should worship the One true God, not a man dressed in fine linens and a pompous hat.

Answer 4

Yes, I'd love to comment.

Why don't you cease your nonsense? I don't think that you've been "called" to be posing questions to Protestants on a forum of this nature. I don't think it has any value. I don't think you have the requisite knowledge.

Any well-educated Protestant is going to see the flaws in what you write.

You wrote: "In the Catholic understanding, prayer is a request".

Your above assertion is simply erroneous.

The Catholic understanding of prayer is far greater than that.

Do you, perchance, recall that there are prayers of "adoration", "thanksgiving", "supplication" and "propitiation"? Do you understand that "meditation" and "contemplation" are forms of prayer? Have you ever meditated on the 7 Dolors of the Blessed Virgin Mary? Well, that ISN'T a prayer of supplication, is it now?

One would have to begin by explaining about the Mystical Body of Christ (i.e., The Church Triumphant, The Church Suffering, The Church Militant, Mary as the "Mediatrix of all graces etc. etc).

This is SIMPLY NOT the place for proselytizing, or going on fruitless "Crusades". But, I highly doubt that you will appreciate this, as I contemplate your chosen nickname. :)

P.S. Suggested reading: James 3:1

Answer 5

I think one of the main reasons for the misconceptions and confusion is not understanding; or perhaps even believing in the "Communion of Saints", trust me even some Catholics are at fault here.
Don't be too harsh on our Protestant brothers and sisters, ( and they are our brothers and sisters ) they just don't know or understand some of the concepts of the Catholic Church, they haven't been instructed or taught.
I believe if we ( all the Christian Faiths) would concentrate on our mutual love and veneration of Christ that God would bring us together on a LOT of other belief issues.
But you know man, it's more fun to back-bite and slander than to be in harmony. it must make God very sad.
We need to get past all these "hang-ups" and get "caught-up" on the one catching us up....and that is Christ.
if we will truly do this and seek purity of heart through Him all the rest of this MESS will straighten it's self.

Fr. Benjamin

Answer 6

Because praying to someone or something is a form of worship.

If I asked a Catholic person to pray to me as an intermediary for God, they would refuse, on several grounds and mostly because I am human.

In the NT the disciples asked Jesus, teach us to pray Luke 11

Jesus taught them to pray directly to God. No where in the bible does it say for us to pray to Mary. Jesus was asked a straight forward question and he gave a straight forward answer.

Why oh why do people keep adding to the bible and then find a text to back it up.

Answer 7

I think Sasi is right. You did not go far enough with your scriptural quotation. What you said might be true, but the verse you used doesn't support it. I think you are not being totally forthright about Catholic practice though, as there are many, many Catholics who rely almost exclusively on Mary's intercession and not direct prayer to God. It isn't enough to say that they aren't practicing official Church teaching, because the Church, to my knowledge, doesn't do anything to correct this.

Answer 8

All I know is that my Aunt was in the hospital a few years ago, and pretty much close to death (my cousin called us to let us know). She was 70, had a kidney transplant already, severe cellulitis, and maybe becoming septic. 2 of my cousins took some clothing of my aunt and took it to the shrine of Padre Pio and put her clothing on the statue, said some prayers and took the clothing back to her.

She made a complete recovery starting that very night. the doctors didn't call it a miracle or anything, but had no way to explain it.

Answer 9

Why did you stop your quotation of Rom 8:39 short? It goes on to say, "..nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us FROM THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD." That changes the meaning from what you implied.

Saints in heaven ARE separated from Saints on earth - temporarily. God warns us not to seek to communicate with the dead, so although we know glorified Saints live in heaven we stick to Jesus' instructions about prayer: He said 'You may ask ME for anything in MY name, and you I will do it' (John 14:14). He didn't tell us to ask someone else who would then approach himself!

Further, Jesus said "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.' (John 12:32). We don't get drawn to Jesus via an intermediary! I am concerned that the Catholic idea of Mary being gentle and less stern than Christ is a fallacy that puts unnecessary fear into people. Christ is our Mediator - the only one! Go to him alone for he personally intercedes before the throne of grace on our behalf!

Answer 10

I understand that Catholics do not worship Mary or the other Saints that they pray too. However I also understand how others can view it as worship. I don't know much about other religions, but I've never heard of any other church or religion that prayed to someone that they didn't worship.